Advice for grinder setup

D

Dob-NV

Joined
Jan 13, 2017
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2
OK, I know that I am beating a dead horse, but I would like some advice on my 2x72 grinder setup.
First some background-I've always loved knives and started making them this past winter as a way to pass the time. I was hooked almost instantly and ordered an Oregon Blade Maker Chassis, that has been sitting in my garage still in the box, I'm still using files and sandpaper, though I did purchase a HF 1x30, which I've used a couple times and now only use to help round outside radii. I've decided to get the OBM setup. Currently, I'm working in a corner of my garage. I do not have 220V available, nor do I want to run a new circuit as we will be moving in the next year. I have no time at the moment to learn to forge, so I'm doing strictly stock removal. I mainly work on EDC and hunter type knives, with the occasional kitchen knife thrown in to keep the missus calm. That said, I've come up with 4 options to get my grinder set up. My budget being ~$600 or less.
Option 1-direct drive, single speed. With either a Harbor Freight or Iron Horse 1hp motor. I know that this would be the absolute cheapest and easiest way of doing things, but also the most limited with getting my full capabilities from the grinder.
Option 2-direct drive, with the 2-speed wheel setup from OBM (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Belt-Grinde...ing-grinder-/252181568509?hash=item3ab7315bfd). Again, using either a HF or IH motor. I would still be limited in options with speed, but I could have one faster for stock removal and one slower but with more torque for post-heat treat and other times when slower speed or higher torque would be better.
Option 3-direct drive, with a 1hp 3 phase Iron Horse hooked up to a KBAC-24. This would give me limitless control and a 3/4 hp output.
Option 4-direct drive, KBAC-27D with Leeson 2hp motor. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/KB-Electron...239518?hash=item46613f275e:g:ImsAAOSwUKxYildU). This would again give me limitless speed control and plenty of power. It's also a bit more then I was originally looking to spend.
I already assume that everyone will be telling me to just go with option 4, the KBAC-27 and leeson 2hp. I guess my question is 'why?' I've read several threads that people have said that they leave there VFD on the same speed. So would option 2, the 2 speed wheel, be viable? Would it be helpful to have the extra torque at low speeds? With the money that I save I could invest some good, high quality belts, and be not only making knives but also learning to grind. I could also put purchase a couple more tooling arms and some small and large contact wheels. I wouldn't have that option with the KBAC-27.
When we move, I am planning on setting up a better 'shop' and for sure run 220 power at that time. If I went with option 2, I would upgrade my setup then as well, and would most likely use the extra motor to build a 12" disc sander.
Again, I know that most, if not all, will tell me to go the KBAC-27 route, but is it really necessary? Or would have lower speeds but higher torque be better?
Thanks in advance.
 
The kbac 24 goes up to 1 hp. I have one on a direct drive setup. I can stall it if I lay into it real hard. I have adjusted and am happy with it currently. I thought about the lightning drive wheel, but I think taking the wheel of and on every time you want to change speeds would be a huge pain.
 
I'm really not sure why someone with variable speed wouldn't use it, but I sure do. Anywhere from full tilt boogie to dead crawl, and anywhere in between. Certain belts, processes and materials demand different speeds - be a shame not to be able to have all of them available.
 
Starting out small, one quickly outgrows its capacity. Go 240v, Get the bigger motor & VFD, then learn how to run it.
Unless your workshop is detached building a good distance from your loadcenter or other 240v circuit how hard or impractical can it be to use an extension cord to suit ?
 
I just got variable speed, and I'm glad I did. As for it being an absolute necessity? I disagree. I can make the same quality knife single speed or variable. It just takes longer with single speed, as I had to be very careful at higher grits and take more dipping time. And Rough grinding was slower due to the lack of high end. I also get more life from ceramic belts with the higher speed. So yes, It has a lot of advantages. I knew I would use my single phase motor on another machine down the road, so starting with that was not a waste of money for me anyway.
 
Option 4

You can use it NOW on115V available and in the future on 115V or when 220V presents itself. The most used piece of equipment is your grinder why would you not want all of it's best performance capabilities...
 
I first built a NWGS with a 3 step pulley on a 1750RPM 1.5hp (single phase) motor, and made knives on that for years, using mostly the middle speed, and dropping down to the low speed for higher grits and finishing/sharpening. I RARELY used the highest speed, but that was due mainly to vibration.

I put off buying a VFD for the years that I used that machine, as I thought my money would be better spent elsewhere on other tools and such. I then built a much more capable grinder and figured I'd give a VFD a shot, and I gotta say, it was night and day different from using 2 to 3 speeds on a step pulley. I nearly immediately regretted not having bought one sooner. It's an investment to be sure, but it's more than worth the price of admission.

Does your garage have a sub panel or relatively easy access to your main panel? It's not too hard to run a temporary 220vac circuit with some SO cable. Even if you have to make it permanent, you have almost a whole year to use it right? I'd pull the trigger.
 
When you research 2X72 grinders the common theme on machines in todays market are 2hp variable speed for a reason. Feedback from knife makers on what they want and need to do the job. On a tight budget it's going to be tough to build a Horizontal/Vertical grinder with 2hp/VFD with flat platen/small wheel/10" wheel and any other accessory you may eventually need. However the heart of the machine is the MOTOR/VFD that's why the manufactures build them.
 
a 1hp motor with variable speed should work fine. If you want to 'hog', use a 4 1/2" angle grinder. I have a Wilmont LB1000 with a 800rpm 1Hp Leeson motor powering either a 3" or 5" drive wheel. I have tested it with 1720rpm and 3400rpm motor, but the 800rpm with 3" wheel sees the most use. Most of the time my VFD is set for 20hz to 40hz. Yes those are slow belt speeds, but it gives me better control. slow does not mean no power, I have lost control of a blank and had the grinder put it 3/4" deep in my wood shop floor.
 
Words of wisdom to live by: Buy Once Cry Once. You may not need that 2hp very often but when you do you'll be glad it's available. Sorta like guns. I have a 1.5 hp dc on my Bader and seldom tax it but for a couple bucks more now I'd go for the 2hp in a blink. Another example: after burning up too many Dremels I got fed up and sucked it up to buy a 1/3 hp Foredom. Wish I hadn't waited so long.
 
There is a good reason that so many serious knife makers use a VFD and a 2 hp TEFC motor. That reason is that it works so well for so many knife making jobs. I never heard of a knife maker who had a VFD and 2 hp motor that switched to a lesser versatile setup. If you can't afford option 4 now then save your dollars until you can. This is not just my opinion...most knife makers will advise you the same. Larry

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For sure, option 4: KBAC-27D with Leeson 2hp motor. This is a great combination you do not want to change. Everything else will get you to spend more money then figure out that you have to achieve this combination.
About 1 Hp engine, I can tell you that for work on handle is ok, if you want grind a blade with 8" weel it's ok, but don't work fine when you make plane grinding blade...With this power when you make flat grind, you can stop the engine.
 
how soon can you get 240 to shop area? the max you can get from 110 is 1.5hp. SHOP. I guess KD makes an ok VFD, I never saw one in 25+ years working industrial maintenance. Names to look for Allen Bradley, Leeson, Baldor, TECO, Fuji, Hitachi, Siemens. You should be able to find a TECO 2Hp VFD for $150. Leeson makes a good motor, but so does Baldor, Hitachi, Toshiba, US, Weg, Reliance, US Electrical.
 
KB drives are great for manual input on the fly. It gives you just what you need to run a grinder, no more, at least on the front panel. You can make adjustments to breaking, torque, max/ min speed etc inside the unit. but the front panel is just Stop/ Start/ Speed Pot, and sometimes FWD/ RVS. So it's just dead simple to use while working. In my full time job, the machines i install use Allen Bradley VFD units. They are a good drive, but they are more of a "set and forget" type deal. They are under the cover of the machine and don't get touched after perameters are set and the machine is in service. Actually, they are controlled remotely by the user interface on the machine in question if they need to be altered in any way.
 
scott.livesey said:
how soon can you get 240 to shop area? the max you can get from 110 is 1.5hp. SHOP. I guess KD makes an ok VFD, I never saw one in 25+ years working industrial maintenance. Names to look for Allen Bradley, Leeson, Baldor, TECO, Fuji, Hitachi, Siemens. You should be able to find a TECO 2Hp VFD for $150. Leeson makes a good motor, but so does Baldor, Hitachi, Toshiba, US, Weg, Reliance, US Electrical.
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I can't say I've seen any KB drives in my years of industrial maintenance either, but that's kind of comparing apples to oranges, IMO. For basic shop machine purposes, you rarely need more than a simple speed control and a on/off switch, or maybe a forward/reverse switch. In industrial settings, you may be dealing with completely different power requirements, safety and control interlocks, PLCs, MCCs, or HMI systems that require fine tuning dozens of specific parameters, etc...
KB fits into its own little corner of the market same as Siemens, ABB, etc... fit into theirs. If you're looking for a dust proof, "plug and play" (for the most part) controller for a basic machine like a grinder, a drill press, a bandsaw, etc... it's hard to beat the KB drives. If you're looking for a drive to run a motor that might be on for 8, 12, or 20 hours at a time, and that needs to communicate with $500,000 worth of other advanced control systems, the KB options probably aren't going to cut it. ;) I think one of the bigger draws (that I'm frankly surprised few other drives are offering in this price range) is the dust/water proof enclosures. Obviously it's not as big of a concern in most industrial settings, as it's usually inside a much larger control cabinet, if not a separate room or building altogether.
 
Thanks for the advice! After a few nights of thinking and sleeping on it, I'm going with option 4. I figure the Leeson will at last me. It's a bit more the I wanted to spend, but it's upgradable, not having to upgrade everything.

I still may get the 2 speed wheel, gearing down will allow for more torque at the same speed.
 
I use three KBAC drives on my machines. They have been totally reliable for about 9 years and at least 500 knives. Once again... this is just my opinion but I wouldn't have anything else. Mine are covered with
scratches and grinding compound and dust and grit but they perform every time. They are a bargain at twice the price in my book. Larry

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