• The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
    Price is $300 ea (shipped within CONUS). Now open to the forums as a whole. If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges. If there are customs issues? On you.

    User Name
    Serial number request

Bearings VS Washers

Mo2

Mo2

Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
6,630
Testing:

18808779_217684072074984_868862319088631808_n.jpg



Results:

18723442_217150185465659_6491459578864074752_n.jpg

BEARINGS vs. WASHERS
Pivot Contaminant Test
1. Rexford Gamma (bearings)
2. CRK Sebenza 25 (washers)
3. Shirogorov Hati (washers)

Posted with permission from the source:
Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/BUwgCQPhufD/

Comments from IG post...

  • [*]illudiumknightMy theory has always been that bearings would perform as well if not better than washers in handling contamination. The issue has been maintenance on loose ball bearings. But maintenance on caged bearings is just as easy as on washers
    [*]tactikaoTested with the gamma
    [*]illudiumknightI did not have to take apart the Gamma to get it back to original flipping action. Running it under warm water was enough. Both the Seb and the Hati had to be disassembled to be cleaned back to original action
    [*]snecxInteresting observations! It's always easier to get bearings to run smoother, but I'm surprised contaminants didn't get stuck inside the bearing cages.
    [*]illudiumknightEven if bearing balls were to be contaminated to the point of not moving, they would still act as a washer. Blade will not seize! Bearings give stand off space to move debris out of way, and space for cleaning without disassembly.
    Click to expand...

This has been something long discussed but never tested. So here you go.
 
I think it has a lot to do with the bearing construction. An open construction such as IKBS would most likely perform worst. Something like Brian Tighe's sealed thrust bearing system would most likely perform very well.
 
interesting, thanks for sharing.

only reason i like washers more than bearings is on frame and liner locks when i use my left hand to do cutting and a knife without a flipper. also closing the knife makes me weary a tiny bit due to the free moving nature of bearings where as i feel i have more safety margin with washers. this of course assumes the pivot is tight on the washers and it isn't free moving or falling like a spyderco pm2 as a random example.
 
Interesting. I just started to edc a ZT 0909, and was curious about the bearings. Looks pretty good. Thanks for this dude. :thumbsup:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mo2
agreed, bearing construction has a lot to do with it. I have some bearing knives that freeze up after light dirty jobs, then I have some I can get down to the nitty gritty and they keep on working. Anytime my bearing knives get bad, I just use my air gun on the air compressor, and that does the job. But, you can always do a take apart cleaning anytime it gets really bad.
Personally, I like both quite a bit, I don't dislike either.
Good test.
 
In before the but, but, but.............

Seriously though im not surprised. I think the only thing that does surprise me are those who insist bearings are a problem despite a decade now of them being available in production knives with no reports of actual failures due to the bearings.



jbmonkey said:
interesting, thanks for sharing.

only reason i like washers more than bearings is on frame and liner locks when i use my left hand to do cutting and a knife without a flipper. also closing the knife makes me weary a tiny bit due to the free moving nature of bearings where as i feel i have more safety margin with washers. this of course assumes the pivot is tight on the washers and it isn't free moving or falling like a spyderco pm2 as a random example.
Click to expand...

That guilotine effect can be had on a knife with washers too. That dropping effect is more dependent on the detent setup than the actual pivot. A sebbie loaded with grease? Not so much. But say a jyd from kershaw? Even on washers that blade drops freely.
 
I love the treads that pop up every now and then stating that BB pivots are a fad and they can't wait till the fad dies out. This fad just keeps on keeping on!
Don't like them, don't buy them. Missing out on some great knives with fantastic action!!
Washers can guillotine just like bearings.....adjustment is the key.
Joe

PURPLEDC said:
In before the but, but, but.............

Seriously though im not surprised. I think the only thing that does surprise me are those who insist bearings are a problem despite a decade now of them being available in production knives with no reports of actual failures due to the bearings.





That guilotine effect can be had on a knife with washers too. That dropping effect is more dependent on the detent setup than the actual pivot. A sebbie loaded with grease? Not so much. But say a jyd from kershaw? Even on washers that blade drops freely.
Click to expand...
 
not surprised at all by the results....bearings are much easier to clean than washers, they are like little rolling standoffs with space between them.

Bonus points for testing on premium blades:-)
 
marcinek said:
....but that "experiment" (if it is claiming to be one) wouldn't pass muster in a 6th grade science fair.

That said, it's interesting anecdotal evidence.
Click to expand...

Well... your comment wouldn't pass muster in 6th grade courtesy....
That said, any constructive thoughts on the subject?
 
I've decided i'll step back from all the bearings VS washers debates. I prefer washers, but just for my own reasons and OCD when it comes to knife construction. I've openly stated what i believe to be negative points on bearings based on real world evidence on knives i've personally owned, but the negatives aren't so bad that they stop the knife from being a good knife. A knife with bearings has it's pros and cons just like washers. That being said, thanks for the post, but it's really not scientific, just a bunch of pictures and numbers that could be subject to the testers opinions, methods or bias. But they seem pretty neutral, so i'll just take it for what it is, they both work, buy what you enjoy. Cheers
 
Rival1314 said:
Bonus points for testing on premium blades:)
Click to expand...

That's what surprise me the most. No way in hell would I throw my Spyderco's into sand and molasses, let alone that trio of knives. More power to the tester, but I think I'd be crying through the whole thing, haha.
 
So where's the test? Where's the pics showin' how much contaminant got under the washers or between the bearings, pictures showing gouging, galling and scratching or lack off. If you're gonna cite a test at least cite one with demonstrable results. The results are about as valid as unicorns and leprechauns. Based on the info provided how can anyone come to a sensible conclusion?
 
marcinek said:
....but that "experiment" (if it is claiming to be one) wouldn't pass muster in a 6th grade science fair.

That said, it's interesting anecdotal evidence.
Click to expand...


I think it goes without saying though that no matter how scientifically sound the test it wouldn't stop a certain few from still claiming that it proves nothing. For some no amount of evidence will suffice.
 
Last edited:
PURPLEDC said:
I think it goes without saying though that no matter how scientifically sound the test it wouldn't stop a certain few from still claiming that it proves nothing. For some no amount of evidence will suffice.
Click to expand...


think youre not reading my post right and missing everything i said.
 
It is an interesting experiment to me, even though it is not well controlled nor quantitative.
I am just happy to know all those three high-end knives worked fine after being exposed to the contaminants used.


Miso
 
miso2 said:
It is an interesting experiment to me, even though it is not well controlled nor quantitative.
I am just happy to know all those three high-end knives worked fine after being exposed to the contaminants used.


Miso
Click to expand...
Yes! Of course we have to believe that they actually do work fine and didn't get ruined! Amazingly I believe! Some guys will no doubt want proof... no doubt jimmy hendrix will find the request for oroof constructive
 
Blues Bender said:
I found Marci's post very constructive. There isn't anything proven here; just a couple of pictures.
Click to expand...
I found Marci's post very unconstructive,
Very few things on this forum can be 'proven' ... just guys sharing experiences, thoughts, opinions...not meant to be a scientific forum. 90% of this stuff is 'anecdotal'... that's wgat a duscussion is.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top