ESEE Zancudo vs. Rat 2 - Quick review of my initial impressions.

[aleforme]

So I just got this ESEE Zancudo with D2 blade in the mail and wanted to post some initial thoughts about the Zancudo vs. the standard Rat 2. These two seem to be compared a lot to each other and for good reason. I won’t go into the blade steels as D2 is clearly a superior steel IMO. Note, my Rat 2 is a year or so old and has been carried and used during that time so this is not a BNIB vs. BNIB comparison.

Compared to the Rat 2, the Zancudo flicks open just as good as the Rat 2 in terms of “firing power” but the Rat 2 does have a better smoothness to it. The detent on the Zancudo is a bit stronger so it’s requires a bit more effort to fire the blade. Whether this is a good or bad thing really comes down the preference. The frame lock on the Zancudo is pretty good. Obviously it’s not going to compare to say a ZT, CRK or Spyderco but for what you’re paying, it works great. Very solid lock up! It’s a little hard to disengage compared to the Rat 2. The Zancudo would benefit from a bit more cut away on the scale side to allow your thumb better access to the frame lock back. But, it’s not bad as is. Just a little bit of tight squeeze for my fat fingers. The liner lock on the Rat 2 is much smoother but it's a different style of lock. The liner lock is just much easier to disengage. But again, different locking systems so I’m not going to go into a Liner Lock vs. Frame Lock comparison. The Zancudo does seem to be heavier than the Rat 2 but not by much. I haven’t checked the weights but rather just going by feel. Fit and finish on the Zancudo is very good for the price. No sharp edges or noticeable hot spots that I’ve notice in my initial handling. I will say it’s not quite as good as the Rat 2. The edges, smoothness and feel just seem a bit better on the Rat 2. But not by much.

The Zancudo is definitely a little slimmer. This is mainly due to the frame lock vs. liner lock construction. In hand, I like them both. They are different in design geometry but both fit my “large size” handle well and I get a good secure grip with each. I think this will really depend on the individual and their own hands. The blades, while different steels, are both very secure with no vertical or horizontal blade play. The blade geometry is clearly different but I haven’t really done my comparisons for daily tasks and use. I’m guessing they will both perform pretty similar. Grinds on the blades are both good and appear even from the factory. Both came very sharp out of the box.

Overall, I think I prefer Rat 2 but the Zancudo is still a great little knife with a D2 blade. All for under $40. I would not hesitate to recommend it to someone looking a “budget” knife with good quality. It stands toe to toe with the Rat 2 but just falls a little short overall. But not by much at all. For me, the Rat 2 just feels better in the hand and is just a little smoother overall in terms of handling. That being said, durability and general toughness are both about the same for both knives. I would use either with total confidence.

Again, I haven’t really put the knives through the paces side by side. This is just my initial impressions with handling them side by side for the first time. Please feel to ask any questions. I will answer them the best I can.

 

[katanas]

Thank you. Very similar to my feelings about the Rat-1 vs the Avispa (though both are aus-8). I do like the Rat-2 better than either. :thumbup:

 

[chiral.grolim]

Thank you for posting your impressions of each :thumbup:

I have a question:

...The blade geometry is clearly different but I haven’t really done my comparisons for daily tasks and use. I’m guessing they will both perform pretty similar. Grinds on the blades are both good and appear even from the factory. Both came very sharp out of the box...

What do you mean by the bolded above?

Both knives feature an FFG blade 0.09" thick at the spine and just over 3/4" wide from spine to edge. I don't own either, so I cannot compare edge-thickness, but your statement suggests that one knife is ground thinner behind the edge than the other, making it a more efficient cutter. Is that really the case?? Or did you mean that the general blade shape/profile is different while the geometry is the same?

 

[aleforme]

Thank you for posting your impressions of each :thumbup:

I have a question:



What do you mean by the bolded above?

Both knives feature an FFG blade 0.09" thick at the spine and just over 3/4" wide from spine to edge. I don't own either, so I cannot compare edge-thickness, but your statement suggests that one knife is ground thinner behind the edge than the other, making it a more efficient cutter. Is that really the case?? Or did you mean that the general blade shape/profile is different while the geometry is the same?

Ah, probably a pour choice of words on my part. I tend to lump blade geometry into grind angle and blade shape. In my thoughts above I am referring to the shape of the blade. The grinds themselves seem to be very similar.

 

[bikerector]

I would agree with everything the OP stated. Good write up. I really don't care for the harder deployment of the zancudo over the rat 2 but I've found a lot of it has to do with how I hold the knife while thumbing it open as I tend to add too much pressure with my middle finger on the frame lock.

I spent some with a dremel and cut away about a mm on the plastic scale to allow better access to the frame lock and it dramatically improved my ability to easy get traction on the lock, especially with gloves since I got the knife to dedicate to my jacket for outdoor work... and I wanted the D2 blade.

The shape of the rat 2 is more pointy to it pokes into things better than the zancudo as you can see in the OP's 1st point.

 

[ocnLogan]

I've actually been considering both of these lately, so the comparison is great .

One thing I've been wondering.

I've handled the rat 2 (two of them actually). The handle felt a bit cramped to me. The total handle length itself was fine, but the indent for the index finger didn't work for me. From the photos, the zancudos handle, while overall the same length, seems like the forward finger indent is less defined /farther forward.

In terms of handle length, is the zancudo any longer/more spacious?

And, my edc for the last 6 years had been a biker exskellimoor II (2.75in blade length). So I'm not expecting anything huge.

Thanks .

 

[bikerector]

I've actually been considering both of these lately, so the comparison is great .

One thing I've been wondering.

I've handled the rat 2 (two of them actually). The handle felt a bit cramped to me. The total handle length itself was fine, but the indent for the index finger didn't work for me. From the photos, the zancudos handle, while overall the same length, seems like the forward finger indent is less defined /farther forward.

In terms of handle length, is the zancudo any longer/more spacious?

And, my edc for the last 6 years had been a biker exskellimoor II (2.75in blade length). So I'm not expecting anything huge.

Thanks .

The handle lengths are basically the same but what you gain in the zancudo is more ability for you fingers to run off the back of the handle. The rat 2 kind of locks your hand in with a more hourglass shape on the finger side and the zancudo has a more pear shape on the finger side. I prefer the lock in feel of the rat but I can see where people with larger hands might appreciate the more rounded rear end of the zancudo that the more locked in feel of the rat. Holding the zancudo in my hand now, it does have a more gradual forefinger feel than the "hooked in" feel of the rat, which I think is what you're asking about. It feels similar to a 50/50 choil shape that's on a spyderco whereas the at has almost an abrupt stop like a hilt, for me at least. I do remember it feeling cramped with gloves, thinking about it further, which is partially how i ended up with a zancudo.

The cold steel spartan would be an extreme visual representation of how I feel the rat kind of locks your hand into the knife.

These have been my experiences at least, I'm curious what the OP's experience has been since he has had more time with a rat 2 than I based on his original post.

 

[chiral.grolim]

Ah, probably a pour choice of words on my part. I tend to lump blade geometry into grind angle and blade shape. In my thoughts above I am referring to the shape of the blade. The grinds themselves seem to be very similar.

No problem, thank you for the clarification, and again thank you for the impressions-review :thumbup:

 

[aleforme]

The handle lengths are basically the same but what you gain in the zancudo is more ability for you fingers to run off the back of the handle. The rat 2 kind of locks your hand in with a more hourglass shape on the finger side and the zancudo has a more pear shape on the finger side. I prefer the lock in feel of the rat but I can see where people with larger hands might appreciate the more rounded rear end of the zancudo that the more locked in feel of the rat. Holding the zancudo in my hand now, it does have a more gradual forefinger feel than the "hooked in" feel of the rat, which I think is what you're asking about. It feels similar to a 50/50 choil shape that's on a spyderco whereas the at has almost an abrupt stop like a hilt, for me at least. I do remember it feeling cramped with gloves, thinking about it further, which is partially how i ended up with a zancudo.

The cold steel spartan would be an extreme visual representation of how I feel the rat kind of locks your hand into the knife.

These have been my experiences at least, I'm curious what the OP's experience has been since he has had more time with a Rat 2 than I based on his original post.

I completely agree with your thoughts regarding the grip between the two. The Rat 2 definitely "locks" in much better, at least for my hands. But, as you mentioned, if you have larger hands, the Zancudo would probably be a better fit as the back of the grip really doesn't lock you hand in like the Rat 2. That being said, the Zancudo still gives you a good grip. I wouldn't hesitate putting it to harder use where a good secure grip is needed.

Overall, the Zancudo is definitely got a more spacious grip if you have larger hands. Whether that's a good or bad thing will vary from person to person.

 

[aleforme]

I would agree with everything the OP stated. Good write up. I really don't care for the harder deployment of the zancudo over the rat 2 but I've found a lot of it has to do with how I hold the knife while thumbing it open as I tend to add too much pressure with my middle finger on the frame lock.

I spent some with a dremel and cut away about a mm on the plastic scale to allow better access to the frame lock and it dramatically improved my ability to easy get traction on the lock, especially with gloves since I got the knife to dedicate to my jacket for outdoor work... and I wanted the D2 blade.

The shape of the rat 2 is more pointy to it pokes into things better than the zancudo as you can see in the OP's 1st point.

If you don't mind, I would love to see a photo of your cutout. I was thinking about doing the same thing. I think that's probably the biggest issue for me with the Zancudo. It's just a little cramped and hard to disengage the frame lock. It's not bad but it could be better.

 

[bikerector]

If you don't mind, I would love to see a photo of your cutout. I was thinking about doing the same thing. I think that's probably the biggest issue for me with the Zancudo. It's just a little cramped and hard to disengage the frame lock. It's not bad but it could be better.

I tried my best to get a clean shot of the knife straight on from the top and then from the backside to show how much scale thickness was taken down but I don't think my phone's camera is going to get that all that well. I did grab a picture from google that had a good top shot of the scale for a comparison of a rough "before" pic.

 

[bikerector]

Not sure how consistent the blade markings and scale fitment are but closed the lettering on the knife could be a decent reference point if it's consistent among knives. You can just start to see the last R on "BRK-R1" on the closed blade.

 

[aleforme]

I tried my best to get a clean shot of the knife straight on from the top and then from the backside to show how much scale thickness was taken down but I don't think my phone's camera is going to get that all that well. I did grab a picture from google that had a good top shot of the scale for a comparison of a rough "before" pic.

Not sure how consistent the blade markings and scale fitment are but closed the lettering on the knife could be a decent reference point if it's consistent among knives. You can just start to see the last R on "BRK-R1" on the closed blade.

This is awesome. Thanks for the pics. I need to do this as well. Just that little bit of additional cutaway probably makes a huge difference.

BTW, I like the Tan/Black color combo. Almost went that route instead of the more boring Black/Satin.

 

[bikerector]

This is awesome. Thanks for the pics. I need to do this as well. Just that little bit of additional cutaway probably makes a huge difference.

BTW, I like the Tan/Black color combo. Almost went that route instead of the more boring Black/Satin.

Thanks, the color is growing on me. I have plenty of black handle, shiny blade options so I decided to change it up some with this. I like variety and with the all black metal side it carries very discretely.

The frame lock bar is pretty catchy, reminds me of the inside of the spydie holes, so not a lot of surface are is needed but it sure felt like the scale was about flush with the lock from the factory.

 

[ocnLogan]

The handle lengths are basically the same but what you gain in the zancudo is more ability for you fingers to run off the back of the handle. The rat 2 kind of locks your hand in with a more hourglass shape on the finger side and the zancudo has a more pear shape on the finger side. I prefer the lock in feel of the rat but I can see where people with larger hands might appreciate the more rounded rear end of the zancudo that the more locked in feel of the rat. Holding the zancudo in my hand now, it does have a more gradual forefinger feel than the "hooked in" feel of the rat, which I think is what you're asking about. It feels similar to a 50/50 choil shape that's on a spyderco whereas the at has almost an abrupt stop like a hilt, for me at least. I do remember it feeling cramped with gloves, thinking about it further, which is partially how i ended up with a zancudo.

The cold steel spartan would be an extreme visual representation of how I feel the rat kind of locks your hand into the knife.

These have been my experiences at least, I'm curious what the OP's experience has been since he has had more time with a rat 2 than I based on his original post.

I completely agree with your thoughts regarding the grip between the two. The Rat 2 definitely "locks" in much better, at least for my hands. But, as you mentioned, if you have larger hands, the Zancudo would probably be a better fit as the back of the grip really doesn't lock you hand in like the Rat 2. That being said, the Zancudo still gives you a good grip. I wouldn't hesitate putting it to harder use where a good secure grip is needed.

Overall, the Zancudo is definitely got a more spacious grip if you have larger hands. Whether that's a good or bad thing will vary from person to person.

Sorry, I missed these updates, hence the late reply. But many thanks for the details/opinions on this.

I hear what you're both saying about there being more room at the back, but I was more thinking about it as letting your hand go more towards the front. I guess in practice though, those are almost the same thing. Both seem to say "more room in the handle", just in different ways.

I don't have what I consider to be large hands (I think I just have "large" glove size), so I was surprised when I held the RAT 2, that it felt smaller in hand than my smaller (in blade length) Boker. Its also interesting that you say that it is more "Spyderco" like in how it locks your hand in place. Believe it or not, I've never held a Spyderco (that I remember anyway), but I just now have learned that maybe they're not for me, as I wasn't a fan of how the RAT 2 was in hand.

Thanks again for the responses .

 

[this_is_nascar]

I own the Rat-2 and Zancudo and like them both for different reasons. On that D2 Zancudo, is that peel-ply carbon fiber or CF all the way through? How's the grip when dry and wet?

 

[DocJD]

I have a Ganzo G740 with very similar blade pattern . Has a "axis style " button slide lock . Not my favorite type lock , but seem to work fine .

It's just 440C but performs well . I haven't hard used the 740 yet but it functions in regular utility with no problems . I did beat the heck out of my G740 frame lock and was well pleased .

Good bargain beaters for the "financially challenged"

 

[aleforme]

I own the Rat-2 and Zancudo and like them both for different reasons. On that D2 Zancudo, is that peel-ply carbon fiber or CF all the way through? How's the grip when dry and wet?

Sorry, just saw this. It's actually just an plastic FRN type matirial. It kinda has a CF look in the right light. Haven't tried using it when wet but the grip should be fine.