Folding KA-BAR Knives

North Shore

North Shore

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Joined
Jun 28, 2016
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447
Why is it that there is very limited information on dating KA-BAR knives in general, especially folding knives? I have this synthetic scaled jack knife but wouldn't know what to call it or when to date it. I can assume it's post the inception of the KA-BAR trademark in the mid 30's and pre 60's because of the lack of a model number. I really like the details on this knife, the swedges and long match strike pull, the riveted inlay. The blades are really thick sturdy stock. The pen blade has a huge kick and both blades are super healthy. Judging by the patina these were high carbon blades (I'm a self proclaimed know nothing of steel, I don't pretend to know either) Anyone have any similar knives or knowledge of this one?

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The lack of information is due to primarily 2 things -

First, Kabar has changed hands several times.

Initially, it was the Tidioute Cutlery Company and formed in 1897 in Pennsylvania (Little Valley??) and owned by a bunch of businessmen. It went bust around 1900 and the assets were bought by the Brown family in 1902. It moved to Olean NY in 1910. The Brown family subsequently sold the company to some Olean businessmen in 1961 who then sold it to some more businessmen who ran it into the dirt and filed for bankruptcy. Kabar assets were then bought by the Robinson Knife Company, who then sold it to Cole National in 1966. Lots of turnover in a few years.

Cole moved the company HQ from Olean to Cleveland. When Cole filed for bankruptcy in 1982, Kabar was sold to American Consumer Products and the HQ moved to Solon OH.

In June of 1996, ACP sold Kabar to ALCAS, who moved the HQ back to Olean.

Every time the company filed who owned the Union Razor/Union Cutlery/Kabar name filed for bankruptcy, or just outright sold the company, documentation was lost, either trashed by the new comers, allowed to rot/get eaten by bugs and rodents, or dumped due to not wanting to pay to ship paper all over the place.

Second - As to a lack of sales brochures and catalogs loose in the wild, dealers trashed the old catalogs when new ones came in. That's why that stuff is so hard to find. Both sides of my family had retail businesses for over 50 years. They never kept a single old catalog for the products they sold. I know when my father retired, I hauled at least 2 pickup loads of "current" catalogs, brochures, advertising literature to the dump. Farm implements, garden tools, fertilizers, pet supplies, paint, seeds, you name it, we sold it. If my father had been the pack rat I am, it probably would have taken an 18 wheeler to haul all the old stuff off.

Gunsil on BF probably has the best collection of old Union/Kabar material in the world and he doesn't have anywhere near all that was produced. And he's been scrounging for it since dirt was clean.
 
zzyzzogeton said:
The lack of information is due to primarily 2 things -

First, Kabar has changed hands several times.

Initially, it was the Tidioute Cutlery Company and formed in 1897 in Pennsylvania (Little Valley??) and owned by a bunch of businessmen. It went bust around 1900 and the assets were bought by the Brown family in 1902. It moved to Olean NY in 1910. The Brown family subsequently sold the company to some Olean businessmen in 1961 who then sold it to some more businessmen who ran it into the dirt and filed for bankruptcy. Kabar assets were then bought by the Robinson Knife Company, who then sold it to Cole National in 1966. Lots of turnover in a few years.

Cole moved the company HQ from Olean to Cleveland. When Cole filed for bankruptcy in 1982, Kabar was sold to American Consumer Products and the HQ moved to Solon OH.

In June of 1996, ACP sold Kabar to ALCAS, who moved the HQ back to Olean.

Every time the company filed who owned the Union Razor/Union Cutlery/Kabar name filed for bankruptcy, or just outright sold the company, documentation was lost, either trashed by the new comers, allowed to rot/get eaten by bugs and rodents, or dumped due to not wanting to pay to ship paper all over the place.

Second - As to a lack of sales brochures and catalogs loose in the wild, dealers trashed the old catalogs when new ones came in. That's why that stuff is so hard to find. Both sides of my family had retail businesses for over 50 years. They never kept a single old catalog for the products they sold. I know when my father retired, I hauled at least 2 pickup loads of "current" catalogs, brochures, advertising literature to the dump. Farm implements, garden tools, fertilizers, pet supplies, paint, seeds, you name it, we sold it. If my father had been the pack rat I am, it probably would have taken an 18 wheeler to haul all the old stuff off.

Gunsil on BF probably has the best collection of old Union/Kabar material in the world and he doesn't have anywhere near all that was produced. And he's been scrounging for it since dirt was clean.
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Thanks for the info Zzyzzogeton. Tell me you got some sweet vintage knives out of it..?
 
I got some sweet vintage knives out of it.

Not.

We didn't sell knives. We gave away hundreds of advertising knives, usually made by Imperial, Colonial or Camillus. Whoever had the best deal on them at the time the advertising company ordered them up. Companies like Pioneer Seed, Uncle Johnny Mills Feed, Purina Feed, Wendland Feed, Hi-Yield Chemical, Green Light Chemical, Sherwin-Williams Paint, Mary Carter Paint, Dow Chemical, Pfizer Pharmaceuticals (livestock vaccines), and more.

If I'd have known then what I know now, I would have been scarfing a few of every thing that came through the door. As it was, they were the source of my knives from age 5 up to about 8 - I would get the worn out hand-me-downs from either my father or maternal grandfather (2 different totally different styles of feed stores and business methods). I'm pretty sure I still have some of my old original knives in a box somewhere. After age 8, I started buying my own knives - my father started paying me 25¢ per hour to work at the store on Saturdays and summers (when sports or Scouts didn't interfere). $2 every Saturday during school and $12 a week during that first summer.
 
Would anybody be able to date this particular folder? Union Cut Co Oleans NY on the pile side stamp of the pen blade, and KA-BAR stamp on the main spear point.
 
The more I see your knife the more I wish I had outbid you on it, it is a sweetie!! I'll venture a fairly educated guess. Due to the arched stamp on the small blade side I'd have to say the knife is 1920s, likely pre-1926, maybe even only 1923-24. They stopped using the Union Cut stamp sometime in 1943 and the tangs began showing the KA-BAR over Olean, NY mark and the quality if the knives dropped. No more long or short dentate pulls and the grinds were not as nice. There were knives produce in the later years (1970s and newer) with Union Cut marks but these are usually easily discernable from the originals as they don't generally have as nice grinds or construction. You ought to come to the Northeast Cutlery Collector's Association two day show in Mystic, CT April 29-30. It is our largest purely knife show in the northeast, and there will be many antique knives there to peruse and learn about. If you come to my table and say "please" I might even have an early KA-BAR outdoor knife brochure reprint to give you, if I remember to bring a few along. You can get times and place on the NCCA website.
 
Hey, what happened to the picture that went with my user name?? Anybody know how to get it back?? I see Zzy has his.
 
gunsil said:
Hey, what happened to the picture that went with my user name?? Anybody know how to get it back?? I see Zzy has his.
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Do you have it on file somewhere? Maybe you can re-upload it.
Otherwise, I'm sure there will be posts in the next day or two about whether or not those things are lost and instructions of what to do.
 
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