I asked the guy who owns The American Military Edged Weaponary Museum in Intercourse PA what he uses. He uses Butchers Bowling Alley Wax. His knives, bayonets, etc. are shiny and rust free. The museum is air conditioned, but this part of PA is humid and the air is often foul (smoggy). Give him a call, between May and November at 717-768-7185 and he'll be glad to tell you his secrets. He has an incredibly diverse and valuble collection.
HOW TO: Knife Collection Maintenance
- Thread starter Joss
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I use Camellia oil on everything, I like it a lot. It really seems to help prevent corrosion. I've used Renwax before, too. It seemed to be effective as well, but it is lot more work to apply.
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joss
what is japanese mineral oil for swords?...is it the stuff that has a little clove oil added to it? is there any advantage to it other than the nice smell ?
i use usp grade mineral oil on natural handles and marine grade tuff cloth on metal
in fact i had not wiped down my blades for 6+ months and they still looked fine.
what is japanese mineral oil for swords?...is it the stuff that has a little clove oil added to it? is there any advantage to it other than the nice smell ?
i use usp grade mineral oil on natural handles and marine grade tuff cloth on metal
in fact i had not wiped down my blades for 6+ months and they still looked fine.
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I use a mixture of prouducts. clove oil for damascus and traditional japanese blades. I just started about a year ago to use a prouduct by flitz it is not there metal polish but a prouduct called gun wax. It is safe on blueing and wood and I have used it on carbon blades to good results even in light field use. Marine tuff cloth is what i use in the field and in long time storage applications. I have coated sword and knife blades and stored them for long durations with no rust at all. I live in Pa and my house is mostly climate controlled but I use and carry daily carbon blades and the only time I have had problems are from gross neglect from not cleaning blood or fluids from animals off the blade and contaminateing sheaths in the field. I have taken to caryring small wet naps like from red lobster in my kit while hunting to clean off blades until I can get home and wax or apply tuff cloth.
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usp = united states pharmacopeia
www.usp.org/
a standards setting organization for all meds/food additives etc
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Camelia oil is different from mineral oil as it seems to stay on longer without evaporating. At least that's what I have found.
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That's the one I use:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3644
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3644
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That's the same as I use. Blade Gallery has it too. Great stuff.
Even great for chapped hands.
Just kidding.
Even great for chapped hands.
Just kidding.
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i was told by bladesmith Murray Carter that camellia oil only actually contains 3% camellia oil,.. the rest being parafin oil.
What this means???, but worth throwing out... I have switched to mineral oil., i don't trust the yellowish color of the bottled camellia oil, on horn. mineral oil is clear.
There is some thought that mineral oil may give a undesireable transluscence to ivory, which it is said or claimed camellia oil does not give. Can't vouch for ivory, but on sheephorn it makes no difference.
Tuff cloth contains mineral spirits, as suggested you should wet a dry cloth w/ it (mineral spirits) if it gets dry. I am not 100% sure but this may be adverse to use on knives w/ a blade etch, or hamon.
How often do you guys condition your stored sheaths, ever?
David
What this means???, but worth throwing out... I have switched to mineral oil., i don't trust the yellowish color of the bottled camellia oil, on horn. mineral oil is clear.
There is some thought that mineral oil may give a undesireable transluscence to ivory, which it is said or claimed camellia oil does not give. Can't vouch for ivory, but on sheephorn it makes no difference.
Tuff cloth contains mineral spirits, as suggested you should wet a dry cloth w/ it (mineral spirits) if it gets dry. I am not 100% sure but this may be adverse to use on knives w/ a blade etch, or hamon.
How often do you guys condition your stored sheaths, ever?
David
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- 1,705
Joss - Good topic. You might want to contact a moderator and see about making your thread a 'sticky' so it will always be on top. Then people can easily find it.
In addition to what's been mentioned so far I've found the following items useful:
1. Storage - wine bottle corks or similar for protecting tips of fixed blades.
- clean thin white terry cloth hand/shop towels and rubber bands with which to wrap knives for storage after they've been cleaned, oiled etc. (Don't use these to wipe blades as they easily trap dust, dirt and grit - see below).
- zipper pouches big enough to hold the wrapped blade AND its sheath (I don't usually wrap the sheath unless it features a lot of silver work). I like to keep them together in a zipper pouch but I never store the knife in its sheath.
- standing floor safe - they're not that expensive, available anywhere guns are sold. It should reside in the basement if possible as thieves will not usually venture into a part of the house where they could be surprised and trapped. I keep a container of water in my safe at all times (humidity is very low in Denver). Really valuable stuff stays in a safety deposit box at the bank. Everything is insured.
Protecting blades and handles - after cleaning blades I apply a very light coating of "MILTEC weapons & machine shop grade synthetic metal contitioner" then wrap the blade as mentioned above. This stuff is great for lubricating folders and general rust prevention. I treat damascus and carbon steel blades basically the same.
- I routinely rub colorless, tasteless, odorless mineral oil on all ivory, bone, horn and antler handles. Sometimes I have to "re-hydrate" organic handles because they definitely shrink out here in Colorado, especially during winter. I do this by placing them on a plastic grate that sits on top of a container with 5 or so gallons of water in it. I rest a plexiglass box on top of the grate so that air can circulate. Moisture does not build up and condense (impossible out here anyway) because the grate and box are larger than the container. Several days of that works wonders. Then, instead of mineral oil, I'll apply a wax coating and rub it in good. My favorite is "BUTCHER'S bowling alley wax." It is a clear paste wax containing carnauba and other quality waxes rendered soft by turpentine and mineral spirits. Use in a ventillated area! I love the smell (in small doses) but what I like best is that it polishes to a hard finish giving the handle a very nice satin look while also retaining the moisture that the handle material just absorbed. In this way I can avoid the rather rapid dehydration of organic handle materials that causes cracking. Out here where we routinely see relative humidity hover around 12-14% I've learned 'the hard way' to be aggressive about protecting handles. Butcher's wax works great on leather sheaths too. (Test a small inconspicuous area first to check for unwanted discoloration.) Buff with a soft brush just like you would a good pair of leather shoes. I will also sometimes use RENAISSANCE micro-crystalline wax/polish for blades and handles, especially MOP (white, yellow, black lip etc. - see exceptions below). For something really cool though, contact Kevin and/or Heather Harvey, both ABS Mastersmiths in Belfast, South Africa about their special MUSEUM WAX. They make it themselves. It smells a lot better than Renaissance wax (which it resembles) and works on horses hooves too! Why not patronize the maker instead of some store?
Cleaning - I've also learned to keep lots of micro-fibre cloths around, rotating them through the wash so I continually have clean ones with which to wipe knives after handling. I also use these to apply wax and lubricant. They need replacing (not just washing) after several cycles of use.
- For guards/buttcaps etc. (silver, brass or whatever) that actually need cleaning (as opposed to simply dry-wiping) I use either Simichrome Polish or Haggerty 100 applied sparingly then polished with a microfibre cloth.
- 0000 or even 000000 steel wool is great for certain jobs, like bringing back the original shine of metal or hard plastic spacers (for example, stacked leather handles). Be gentle (but it's pretty hard to do damage because as steel wools go it's very fine).
Exceptions - I already inferred that MOP or "pearl" handles, escutcions etc. get treated differently (Renaissance or Museum wax only). The real 'buggaboo" are the various "blued" finishes. These can be a real problem depending upon how they were done. I consider all blued parts 'fragile' as far as finish goes. I don't put anything on a blued finish - just occasionally softly dry-wipe it with a microfibre cloth.
Everything I've mentioned is something that has been suggested to me by makers or museum people over the years. I learned the limits of these techniques/products (and the consequenses of not using them) by crossing the line here and there - either actively doing damage or finding damage that resulted from 'not doing.' Our family has discovered that we get a lot more pleasure from our collection by routinely handling many of the knives, not just looking at them. My wife and I rotate knives out of the safe and onto our desks for a month or two at a time where they see a lot of light use. You gotta open the mail with something, right? Since I'm constantly photographing knives from our collection, they get handled a lot that way too.
Collecting handmade cutlery is a fun hobby for me in part because it is a "hands on" hobby. We have a few knives that might be called 'investments.' As part of our 'retirement plan' so to speak, they are protected from handling and only come home from the bank safety deposit box once or twice a year for inspection and maintenance. All the rest is just part of our daily lives. Yeah, sometimes "stuff happens" but it's rare. When there is an accident and something gets a little ding on it we don't get too bent out of shape over it. We've lived long enough now to have experienced 'real' life problems and so I'm a lot more relaxed about our knife collection than I used to be. There was a time though... when I had to be told by someone more experienced than me to relax about this knife collecting stuff or it would eventually kill all interest and pleasure associated with knife collecting. It was further pointed out to me that (and this really got my attention) if that happened, I'd wind up getting rid of it all in a 'fire sale' just to get the monkey off my back. Then I'd be left with nothing but a bad feeling and crushing guilt over having 'wasted' so much time, energy and money. Wish I could've been smart enough to figure that out on my own, but I wasn't. This, IMHO, is why newer collectors (I include myself) should seek out experienced collectors for advice and friendship. People in their 70s and 80s who've been collecting for decades have so much to share. Plus, it reawakens their own passion for the hobby when some young lion collector comes along and shows an interest.
In addition to what's been mentioned so far I've found the following items useful:
1. Storage - wine bottle corks or similar for protecting tips of fixed blades.
- clean thin white terry cloth hand/shop towels and rubber bands with which to wrap knives for storage after they've been cleaned, oiled etc. (Don't use these to wipe blades as they easily trap dust, dirt and grit - see below).
- zipper pouches big enough to hold the wrapped blade AND its sheath (I don't usually wrap the sheath unless it features a lot of silver work). I like to keep them together in a zipper pouch but I never store the knife in its sheath.
- standing floor safe - they're not that expensive, available anywhere guns are sold. It should reside in the basement if possible as thieves will not usually venture into a part of the house where they could be surprised and trapped. I keep a container of water in my safe at all times (humidity is very low in Denver). Really valuable stuff stays in a safety deposit box at the bank. Everything is insured.
Protecting blades and handles - after cleaning blades I apply a very light coating of "MILTEC weapons & machine shop grade synthetic metal contitioner" then wrap the blade as mentioned above. This stuff is great for lubricating folders and general rust prevention. I treat damascus and carbon steel blades basically the same.
- I routinely rub colorless, tasteless, odorless mineral oil on all ivory, bone, horn and antler handles. Sometimes I have to "re-hydrate" organic handles because they definitely shrink out here in Colorado, especially during winter. I do this by placing them on a plastic grate that sits on top of a container with 5 or so gallons of water in it. I rest a plexiglass box on top of the grate so that air can circulate. Moisture does not build up and condense (impossible out here anyway) because the grate and box are larger than the container. Several days of that works wonders. Then, instead of mineral oil, I'll apply a wax coating and rub it in good. My favorite is "BUTCHER'S bowling alley wax." It is a clear paste wax containing carnauba and other quality waxes rendered soft by turpentine and mineral spirits. Use in a ventillated area! I love the smell (in small doses) but what I like best is that it polishes to a hard finish giving the handle a very nice satin look while also retaining the moisture that the handle material just absorbed. In this way I can avoid the rather rapid dehydration of organic handle materials that causes cracking. Out here where we routinely see relative humidity hover around 12-14% I've learned 'the hard way' to be aggressive about protecting handles. Butcher's wax works great on leather sheaths too. (Test a small inconspicuous area first to check for unwanted discoloration.) Buff with a soft brush just like you would a good pair of leather shoes. I will also sometimes use RENAISSANCE micro-crystalline wax/polish for blades and handles, especially MOP (white, yellow, black lip etc. - see exceptions below). For something really cool though, contact Kevin and/or Heather Harvey, both ABS Mastersmiths in Belfast, South Africa about their special MUSEUM WAX. They make it themselves. It smells a lot better than Renaissance wax (which it resembles) and works on horses hooves too! Why not patronize the maker instead of some store?
Cleaning - I've also learned to keep lots of micro-fibre cloths around, rotating them through the wash so I continually have clean ones with which to wipe knives after handling. I also use these to apply wax and lubricant. They need replacing (not just washing) after several cycles of use.
- For guards/buttcaps etc. (silver, brass or whatever) that actually need cleaning (as opposed to simply dry-wiping) I use either Simichrome Polish or Haggerty 100 applied sparingly then polished with a microfibre cloth.
- 0000 or even 000000 steel wool is great for certain jobs, like bringing back the original shine of metal or hard plastic spacers (for example, stacked leather handles). Be gentle (but it's pretty hard to do damage because as steel wools go it's very fine).
Exceptions - I already inferred that MOP or "pearl" handles, escutcions etc. get treated differently (Renaissance or Museum wax only). The real 'buggaboo" are the various "blued" finishes. These can be a real problem depending upon how they were done. I consider all blued parts 'fragile' as far as finish goes. I don't put anything on a blued finish - just occasionally softly dry-wipe it with a microfibre cloth.
Everything I've mentioned is something that has been suggested to me by makers or museum people over the years. I learned the limits of these techniques/products (and the consequenses of not using them) by crossing the line here and there - either actively doing damage or finding damage that resulted from 'not doing.' Our family has discovered that we get a lot more pleasure from our collection by routinely handling many of the knives, not just looking at them. My wife and I rotate knives out of the safe and onto our desks for a month or two at a time where they see a lot of light use. You gotta open the mail with something, right? Since I'm constantly photographing knives from our collection, they get handled a lot that way too.
Collecting handmade cutlery is a fun hobby for me in part because it is a "hands on" hobby. We have a few knives that might be called 'investments.' As part of our 'retirement plan' so to speak, they are protected from handling and only come home from the bank safety deposit box once or twice a year for inspection and maintenance. All the rest is just part of our daily lives. Yeah, sometimes "stuff happens" but it's rare. When there is an accident and something gets a little ding on it we don't get too bent out of shape over it. We've lived long enough now to have experienced 'real' life problems and so I'm a lot more relaxed about our knife collection than I used to be. There was a time though... when I had to be told by someone more experienced than me to relax about this knife collecting stuff or it would eventually kill all interest and pleasure associated with knife collecting. It was further pointed out to me that (and this really got my attention) if that happened, I'd wind up getting rid of it all in a 'fire sale' just to get the monkey off my back. Then I'd be left with nothing but a bad feeling and crushing guilt over having 'wasted' so much time, energy and money. Wish I could've been smart enough to figure that out on my own, but I wasn't. This, IMHO, is why newer collectors (I include myself) should seek out experienced collectors for advice and friendship. People in their 70s and 80s who've been collecting for decades have so much to share. Plus, it reawakens their own passion for the hobby when some young lion collector comes along and shows an interest.
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- Feb 16, 2006
- Messages
- 1,962
on my blades that are carbon i use mineral oil and polish all my blades with simichrome.....i find it works good......some live in display cases or stands.....most are out on display.....i've been lucky that i haven't had man problems with humidity or anything(knock on wood)......it is easy to examine them at a glance to because alot of them are on display......ryan
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2003
- Messages
- 12,554
If it is a damascus without deep etching.....Noxon. http://housewares.hardwarestore.com/35-176-metal-polishes/noxon-7-metal-polish-145359.aspx
Deep etching=Flitz. http://www.flitz.com/index.html
Noxon is significantly less abrasive than Flitz, came recommended to me by Ted Tenold, and it is the stuff that most of the JSA cutters use to maintian the polish on their blades.
Fingerprints burned into a satin carbon blade=trip to the maker for massaging....expect to pay for it.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2003
- Messages
- 1,235
Do not dip a q-tip in Flitz and rub hard on a polished blade. I marred a nice Sigman doing that (W-2).
Keeping Ren wax on the blades minimizes fingerprints, which of course are body oils trapped into the surface roughness. And why would I touch a collectable blade? I enjoy them all by sight, smell, and touch (washing my hands first).
SG, thanks for the tip on Noxon.
HTMD, thank you for your rehydration process, I'll try it.
Keeping Ren wax on the blades minimizes fingerprints, which of course are body oils trapped into the surface roughness. And why would I touch a collectable blade? I enjoy them all by sight, smell, and touch (washing my hands first).
SG, thanks for the tip on Noxon.
HTMD, thank you for your rehydration process, I'll try it.
brightred
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2004
- Messages
- 471
interesting thread!
as a watchmaker i repair a lot of complicated old pocket watches from around 1900. you'd be surprised to see that usually the steel parts (carbon steel) are like new, no stains, no rust, nothing, although the watches were carried in warm and humid pockets. and, the steel parts are NOT covered with any kind of oil to protect them from staining (you apply oil or grease only to reduce friction).
you need both, water and oxygen to induce rusting. ions accelerate rusting significantly (sweat, sea water). to prevent the steel from rusting, clean it carefully, keep it dry and don't touch it. to be on the safe side, you can use any non volatile fluid that is chemically inert and able to form a film on the surface to protect the blade from staining. almost all mineral oils work. kevin, most oils (not the perfume oils) evaporate so slowly, they rather become thick than disappear (just watch a butter stain on a sheet of paper disappear...).
i wipe down my blades with a piece of cloth that i soak with hall's pro-edge honing oil, or finish line cross country bike oil, or ballistol (can stain nickle silver), or jojoba-oil (in fact a liquid wax), or something from the kitchen (peanut oil, olive oil). no stains, no rust. the kitchen knives (all carbon steel) are never oiled, they get used and then washed -> no rust, just a nice patina.
best regards,
hans
as a watchmaker i repair a lot of complicated old pocket watches from around 1900. you'd be surprised to see that usually the steel parts (carbon steel) are like new, no stains, no rust, nothing, although the watches were carried in warm and humid pockets. and, the steel parts are NOT covered with any kind of oil to protect them from staining (you apply oil or grease only to reduce friction).
you need both, water and oxygen to induce rusting. ions accelerate rusting significantly (sweat, sea water). to prevent the steel from rusting, clean it carefully, keep it dry and don't touch it. to be on the safe side, you can use any non volatile fluid that is chemically inert and able to form a film on the surface to protect the blade from staining. almost all mineral oils work. kevin, most oils (not the perfume oils) evaporate so slowly, they rather become thick than disappear (just watch a butter stain on a sheet of paper disappear...).
i wipe down my blades with a piece of cloth that i soak with hall's pro-edge honing oil, or finish line cross country bike oil, or ballistol (can stain nickle silver), or jojoba-oil (in fact a liquid wax), or something from the kitchen (peanut oil, olive oil). no stains, no rust. the kitchen knives (all carbon steel) are never oiled, they get used and then washed -> no rust, just a nice patina.
best regards,
hans
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
Hans, all I'm saying is that I used mineral oil before finding Camellia oil, and now have to re-apply less often to get the same effect. And I like the sheen of Camellia better. Great information on the rust factor.