It followed me home (Part 2)

garry3 said:
Handle looks like maybe its been stained red like the Plumb handles? I would have thought that maybe some one switched heads on an old Plumb house axe handle, they did have a full size eye but you have that triangle stamp on that head also. Its hard to say just what it is...
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Thanks Garry3. Once You mentioned that diamond mark points to Plumb (before 1960 Australia export???) I searched for Plumb Dayton pics ..... it really looks like one. https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/shes-a-big-girl-plumb.999970/
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/plumb-manufacturing-thread.1066763/#post-12177851
 
we call them spike poles on the river,have heard them called pike poles.about 20 feet long when new.thats a newer one the old ones had a hook like an eagles beak and a sharp spike
 
Square_peg said:
I was looking at a photo of the temper line in a Plumb the other day. It showed a curve similar in shape to the bit. A few weeks ago we were trying to think of a way to get a curved quench line in a one piece steel axe (the surface of the liquid quenchant would be a flat plane). I think I might have the answer. Uneven transfer of heat back into the quenched zone. The thicker center of the axe holds more heat and it transfers further back into the bit removing temper.

It's a theory. I'd like to hear other blacksmith's thoughts on this.
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About twenty one minutes in. From an excelent video Ugaldie posted.
 
junkenstien said:
we call them spike poles on the river,have heard them called pike poles.about 20 feet long when new.thats a newer one the old ones had a hook like an eagles beak and a sharp spike
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I remember these from the Ottawa and Rideau Rivers in the 60s. These have always been known as Pike Poles. Log drivers (who worked out of shallow punts by that time) used them (with 15-20 foot wood handles) to direct floaters (logs) and cabin cruisers used them (8-10 foot handles) to fend off from docks and to grab cleats or lines. I have the head of one (NOS, where I got from 40 years ago I don't remember) that has a 1/2" long spiral fluted tip (like a quik drive drywall screw). If you spear a log or deadhead with it and twist clockwise half a turn you have enough purchase to gently pull the item towards you.
 
junkenstien said:
we call them spike poles on the river,have heard them called pike poles.about 20 feet long when new.thats a newer one the old ones had a hook like an eagles beak and a sharp spike
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300Six said:
I remember these from the Ottawa and Rideau Rivers in the 60s. These have always been known as Pike Poles. Log drivers (who worked out of shallow punts by that time) used them (with 15-20 foot wood handles) to direct floaters (logs) and cabin cruisers used them (8-10 foot handles) to fend off from docks and to grab cleats or lines. I have the head of one (NOS, where I got from 40 years ago I don't remember) that has a 1/2" long spiral fluted tip (like a quik drive drywall screw). If you spear a log or deadhead with it and twist clockwise half a turn you have enough purchase to gently pull the item towards you.
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Thank you, that is interesting. This one has the spiral a the end of the spike tip but the hook sweeps down in more of an arc than an eagle's beak. I started to take it apart and realized that it it was pressed in there with the idea of not coming out of that aluminum housing. I could however install a longer handle but the question becomes what am I going to do with it if I do that? ;)

That blocky hatchet is marked with 3-4 letters and maybe an emblem but more than anything I would like to know how it ended up at a local junk dealer. The wood of the handle is not stained so that is the natural color - any wood guesses?
 
garry3 said:
. . . I can't see much of what information was provided in your link. Was this one piece a prototype? Just one axe in the line or do they say? . . .
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I couldn't see much either. Not even sure if the snip from page 155 refers to Plumb, however Plumb had one piece construction for their boy scout axes in 1911:

Steve Tall said:
Here's the full page from the 1911 book:

8540225298_6863500da4_b.jpg


It can also be viewed in this reprint of the Boy Scouts Handbook: Original 1911 Edition (including some color):
https://books.google.com/books?id=lCnwo8crqr4C&lpg=PA405&ots=xoziu0ysBF&dq=original plumb "scout axe" 1911&pg=PA405#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Bob
 
garry3 said:
That is the earliest I have heard. From advertising I believe the date was one piece heads by 1915. I can't see much of what information was provided in your link. Was this one piece a prototype? Just one axe in the line or do they say? And I am under the impression that the red handles came out in the twenty's.
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The "snippet view" limitation of that book doesn't give many details, just this:

"Fayette R. Plumb, an axe-and-hatchet manufacturer of Philadelphia, produced an axe in 1911 which was of the same kind of steel throughout. It was a tool with a one-piece body, or head, made of metal which could be hardened so as to hold a keen edge, and through special heat treatment or tempering, it had a greater toughness and ductility about the eye than had..."
from
A Popular History of American Invention, Volume 2, Waldemar Kaempffert, 1975


Here's a previously posted link to the publication Commercial America, dated July 1915, which describes Plumb's one-piece hatchet heads on page 37, and on page 33 there is advertising for hatchets made by Plumb that are "made of solid steel" or "made of solid cast steel".

content

content
 
Steve Tall said:
. . .Here's a previously posted link to the publication Commercial America, dated July 1915, which describes Plumb's one-piece hatchet heads on page 37, and on page 33 there is advertising for hatchets made by Plumb that are "made of solid steel" or "made of solid cast steel". . .
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Just in case there are any other old geezers like myself who need a little help:




The days of the "welded steel bit and head, are numbered"?






Bob
 
Steve Tall said:
The "snippet view" limitation of that book doesn't give many details, just this:

"Fayette R. Plumb, an axe-and-hatchet manufacturer of Philadelphia, produced an axe in 1911 which was of the same kind of steel throughout. It was a tool with a one-piece body, or head, made of metal which could be hardened so as to hold a keen edge, and through special heat treatment or tempering, it had a greater toughness and ductility about the eye than had..."
from
A Popular History of American Invention, Volume 2, Waldemar Kaempffert, 1975


Here's a previously posted link to the publication Commercial America, dated July 1915, which describes Plumb's one-piece hatchet heads on page 37, and on page 33 there is advertising for hatchets made by Plumb that are "made of solid steel" or "made of solid cast steel".

content

content
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never mind; delete, please
 
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Agent_H said:
Thank you, that is interesting. This one has the spiral a the end of the spike tip but the hook sweeps down in more of an arc than an eagle's beak. I started to take it apart and realized that it it was pressed in there with the idea of not coming out of that aluminum housing. I could however install a longer handle but the question becomes what am I going to do with it if I do that? ;)

That blocky hatchet is marked with 3-4 letters and maybe an emblem but more than anything I would like to know how it ended up at a local junk dealer. The wood of the handle is not stained so that is the natural color - any wood guesses?
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For years I had a 20 footer (nice straight round piece of Ash too, where on earth would you get one of those today!) that I'd found along the river bank after spring ice breakup and my dad quickly adopted it for use in hanging and taking down the strings of Christmas lights in the White Pine tree in front of the house.
 
Agent_H said:
. . .I could however install a longer handle but the question becomes what am I going to do with it if I do that? ;). . .
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Mine is on "display" in my house. I've posted it before, but I think it is probably on Photobucket. It is about ten feet long. Looks like the pole was made from a sapling with the "pike" on the butt end.




Here is a closer look of the business end. On the far right is the square head of a flat "nail", It appears that a slot was made in the pole and goes through that and a slot in the "pike" tang. The collar is friction fit.




The "nail" is then clinched on the other side like this one from the forestry museum Lusto in Punkaharju, Finland (Wikipedia).





Bob

"Pike poles being used on a log drive" (Wikipedia):




Next two pictures randomly found on the internet:



 
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garry3 said:
That is the earliest I have heard. From advertising I believe the date was one piece heads by 1915. I can't see much of what information was provided in your link. Was this one piece a prototype? Just one axe in the line or do they say?...
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"The first solid steel axe that revolutionized Plumb's production of sharp-edged tools was produced in 1908 and presented to the founder. Here it is held by Fayette R. Plumb II, the last member of the family to be associated with the company."

Plumb.JPG


from
http://www.apextoolgroup.com/content/plumb-1908-prima-dolabra
 
Square_peg said:
Yes, but that won't happen on a production line where many heads are simultaneously quenched.
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Actually, designing a system that would mimic that move, several heads simultaneously, wouldn't have been very hard. I'm wondering if this "rocking" move would minimize cracking or warping, versus a more "brutal" direct quench? If so, it would make sense to design such an implement.

However, I can see why a head with a high center line would "retemper" itself a little. Doesn't seem far fetched to me. (Heard the same about kukris with thick spines.) But I am no backsmith.
 
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A rocking quench system would be easy now in the days of robotics but would have been much more difficult 70 years ago.
 
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