LionSteel Steels

Since we have also discussed a few other steels I have included some more links on knife steels:


DATA SHEETS:

 
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molletta said:
There is an error. Vanadis 4 extra don't have 8% chome. The chart you linked wrong steel. Vanadis4 extra have 4.7% chrome.
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THanks, I am aware of differences betwen Vanadis 4E and Vanadis 4.
molletta said:
Sleipner have secondary hardening and in Sio2 test have results near Vanadis 4.
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You said Vanadis 4 in prev post. Which is why I've linked Vanadis 4 composition, and better yet, I have Vanadis 4E knife, a small fixed blade, but still, I have a good experience with it.

So, let's get back to Sleipner having same wear resistance now with Vanadis 4E, is that your result? What would account for that? Sleipner has 3% more Cr, while Vanadis 4E has 3% more Vanadium, and Vanadis 4E also has considerably more carbon as well. Vanadium being better carbide former, I'd think the result would be different :)
Was Vanadis 4E also at 60 HRC in the test?
 
molletta said:
Yes.
Hardened on my specification.

ASTM 11.1 authenitic grane. Very fine structure.
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One more question if I may ask.
You also made knives with Viking/Chipper and Unimax.
How was their performance?
Did they exhibit much less practical wear resistance than lets say Sleipner?
Also, was there a noticable differenence betweeen viking(a8mod) and unimax?
 
@ Gator97


In test sio2 at 60 hrc V4 extra is few low 10 mg , Sleipner is few up. A2 is a 58 mg for a comparison.
I think you can note the difference in normal use with the A2 where there are 50 points of difference. Wanting to be precise the V4e has 9 mg and sleipner 15mg.
This difference is important in the work cycle but I doubt it can be noted in also intensive use of the knife. All value are for 60 hrc.
 
idaho said:
One more question if I may ask.
You also made knives with Viking/Chipper and Unimax.
How was their performance?
Did they exhibit much less practical wear resistance than lets say Sleipner?
Also, was there a noticable differenence betweeen viking(a8mod) and unimax?
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Both have low wear respect sleipner and V4E. Chipper/vicking have 70 mg at 59 hrc. Unimax 140 at 58 hrc.
Despite the low wear, unimax in comparison is a better result than some conventional carbon steels and stainless steels.Needless to say, a knife in this steel (astm10) tested for 2 years has demonstrated very robust. Chipper is a good compromise for large blades, good toughness and good wear. If you need a big edge retention i think that, V4E, Sleipner, M2, V23.. Are better.
 
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In one of the Uddeholm links on Sleipner ("A steel with good wear resistance, chipping resistance and hardenability. Suitable for wear parts with high abrasive wear.") I found a great example of its non-knife use:

47ced870-abf6-4eee-bb1f-a3776662df5d_zpsf86c14ff.png
 
Molletta,

So, Sleipner being first choice for LionSteel would you say then it's Niolox, K110 (D2) and finally the forgotten child Elmax in that order (setting aside Damascus)?

Will you be using any new steel for LionSteel knives in the immediate future (I know you have KR Enki with V4E)?
 
Niolox is a good stainless steel, it was recommended to me. Finer structure, better toughness and better edge retention than 440 and similar. There is not a ranking, there are different steels for different needs. The niolox and Elmax for who puts the corrosion resistance in the first place. The D2 for those who want good know steel.

I will use new steels on my experimental series, then we'll see if someone will be used in production.
 
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Thanks, interesting data.

molletta said:
In test sio2 at 60 hrc V4 extra is few low 10 mg , Sleipner is few up. A2 is a 58 mg for a comparison.
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So, if I read this correctly, the numbers above are lost weight of the pin, due to abrasion on SiO2 disc?

molletta said:
Wanting to be precise the V4e has 9 mg and sleipner 15mg.
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That's about 67% difference, I wouldn't call is small :)
And what happened to M390 at 60HRC on SiO2 tests?

molletta said:
This difference is important in the work cycle but I doubt it can be noted in also intensive use of the knife. All value are for 60 hrc.
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Agreed, although I am not sure it is fair for Vanadis 4E to be at 60HRC. I suppose on one end you wanted same hardness, but having used Vanadis 4E small fixed blade hardened at 66HRC, for few years, IMHO it'd be a waste of a good steel to be left at 60HRC, unless it was a sword of something.
 
RamZar said:
In one of the Uddeholm links on Sleipner ("A steel with good wear resistance, chipping resistance and hardenability. Suitable for wear parts with high abrasive wear.")
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And form another link from the same uddeholm site on m390 microclean - "Third generation powder metal technology. Developed for knife blades requiring good corrosion resistance and very high hardness for excellent wear resistance."
And from M390 brochure - Optimum wear resistance.

Hard to make conclusions based on the marketing material :) Everything is excellent, industry leading, optimum and ideal. Except you won't know much until you use a knife.

RamZar said:
I found a great example of its non-knife use:
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Well, that is a problem. That device has blades which are really thick and the edge on that thing is ~90 or so. Lots of industrial cutting instruments are like that, and they last very long time in those instruments, but used in a knife, with much thinner edges, and in human hands the same alloys behave very different.
 
Which one if not a secret :)
And how much did M390 lost, assuming it was 60HRC and you did test it too..
 
Personally, if LionSteel had chosen M390 instead of Sleipner for at least their folders starting with SR-1 back in 2010 they'd be selling more of them. Even though Sleipner might be superior to M390 in wear resistance, for most M390 is a known stainless super steel and highly sought after. I don't know of any knife manufacturer who uses Sleipner steel (notwithstanding LionSteel-made knives for Pohl Force, DPx Gear and Knife Research).

That's just one person's opinion.
 
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Edge holding/Stability is different issue from pure wear resistance, later being part of the former.
I'm not debating/disputing Sleipner being better in those terms based on Moletta's input and tests. Honestly, it was surprising to some degree, but again, there are a lot of other, less alloyed steels, Vanadis 4E included which do outperform M390.

To me, the pure test data is interesting, and on top of that I really want to understand how it works, i.e. Sleipner having less carbide formers being more wear resistant than M390, if that was a case.
 
That they do, but when someone can make Cr carbides perform on par with, or even outperform Vanadium carbides, just by HT protocol, that'll be a secret well worth patenting and selling. Just the licensing fees will outdo all knife sales.
 
Molletta,

For D2 what's listed in the LionSteel 2014 Catalog on page 24, Bohler D2 and Bohler K110 (D2) are slightly different. Can you explain? I thought LionSteel used K110 but I could be wrong.

Bohler K110 (D2)Bohler D2LionSteel D2
C1.551.551.5-1.6
Cr11.3011.3011-12
Mn0.300.400.35
Si0.300.300.30
Mo0.750.800.75
V0.750.801.00
 
The values ​​given may vary slightly from production to production while returning the same average values​​.

Here another Bohler K110
http://www.thermacciai.it/images/k110.pdf

On some datasheed of others pruductor you can see values ​​that indicate the minimum and maximum fork.

Here. You can see official chemical composition at page 4 and analisys composition at page 8-9.

http://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/files/K110DE.pdf
 
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