Microforge Technology...

cbwx34

cbwx34

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Dec 27, 2004
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Microforging?

I ran across a new sharpener that WorkSharp is coming out with. Nothing really new sharpening wise until the last step they describe as "Microforging"... 'cold forging micro facets into the cutting edge'. Here's the info I found...

4b8fcfcb1be3a5cc6fcad48163a3a18d_zpsz8gx6a0v.jpg


What's interesting to me is the last picture, where it shows "Microforge" and it's putting the knife in a little slot in the handle at the top of the ceramic rod. (BTW, as near as I can tell, that piece doesn't slide down the ceramic since the outside angles on the black piece are "guides for using the ceramic", so it's not that).

There's also a video... but it doesn't show the Microforging step... just mentions it.

[video=youtube;b7CWEhv_mL4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7CWEhv_mL4[/video]

So, what does anyone think? Just a fancy name for a carbide "scraper"? :eek: Something else? I figure the term is just marketing... but what do you think it is? :confused:
 
cbwx34 said:
Microforging?
...
MicroForge Create a longer lasting, more durable edge with greater cutting control on any knife. Our exclusive MicroForge technology cold forges micro facets into the straight cutting edge of the knife. Combining the straight and faceted edge styles enhances cutting performance with your kitchen cutlery.
..
So, what does anyone think? Just a fancy name for a carbide "scraper"? :eek: Something else? I figure the term is just marketing... but what do you think it is? :confused:
Click to expand...
Hi,

I don't think abrasion is forging :)

Is this not like calling your product/technology "BeefSausage" but you're selling tofu sausage?

If I search for "microforge technology" I find Microforge : AutoMate Scientific This microforge assists the process by using fire-polishing technology to polish the microelectrode tips.

Did some marketing person forgot to run this name by the legal department?

Since this 3 STAGE KNIFE SHARPENER comes with coarse diamond rod and fine ceramic rod ... it may or may not also have a carbide scraper to set the lower angle ...

But I've seen this trinity before, dmd-lx1201-carbide-ceramic-diamond-400-1000-sharpener
tB7G3br.png
 
bucketstove said:
...

Since this 3 STAGE KNIFE SHARPENER comes with coarse diamond rod and fine ceramic rod ... it may or may not also have a carbide scraper to set the lower angle ...

But I've seen this trinity before, dmd-lx1201-carbide-ceramic-diamond-400-1000-sharpener
tB7G3br.png
Click to expand...

Difference is, from what I can tell... the "MicroForge" is a finishing step. (And yeah, I know it's probably just a marketing term they're using).

HeavyHanded said:
Its a scraper of some sort, intended to microbevel the edge - I think...
Click to expand...

Seems weird they would have this plus a ceramic rod... especially since on their other sharpeners, and the video on this one, the ceramic is used as a finishing step, then followed by the Microforge... appears that way anyhow...
 
im not a fan of worksharp, i have the ken onion work sharp and it has to many Con's in my list of pro's and con's. i dont foresee this invention will be better than bench stones or guided systems.
 
If they're talking about cold-forging I can't imagine how that can be done by drawing it through a slot...that's very confusing.
 
What I was envisioning before it was said the plastic doesn't slide down the rod and the rod is ceramic, was a sharpening steel that the plastic piece moved up and down the rod on. A sharpening steel has small raised ridges that run the length of the rod. If you held the blade still in the plastic which holds it at a fixed angle and ran it down the rod, the ridges would apply a lot of pressure at the tips of the ridges and 'cold forge' micro serrations, or "micro facets", into the edge with high spots from the original edge, and low spots that the ridges formed.

The problem I would see is that you would have to move the blade a fraction of an inch and do a pass in order to eventually cover the entire edge. Unless pulling the knife as you moved down would do the same thing but create serrations at an angle instead of perpendicular to the edge. This would only effect the very edge where the material is very thin and the pressure on the tips of the ridges would be great enough to slightly compress and deform the ' micro serrations' into the edge. If this was the case I would think you would only pull the blade across one time as multiple times wouldn't align and you would start to effect the entire edge equally instead of defined high and low spots.

Anyways, that is what immediately popped into my head before I read more. Who knows and hopefully my description makes sense and conveys what I'm picturing.
 
cbwx34 said:
Microforging?

I ran across a new sharpener that WorkSharp is coming out with. Nothing really new sharpening wise until the last step they describe as "Microforging"... 'cold forging micro facets into the cutting edge'. Here's the info I found...
...
So, what does anyone think? Just a fancy name for a carbide "scraper"? :eek: Something else? I figure the term is just marketing... but what do you think it is? :confused:
Click to expand...

Please allow me to chime in.

I've been waiting for over 2 years to talk about this....

First my disclosure - I do not have any affiliation with Work Sharp -
although I'll freely admit being a big fan and user of their belt sharpeners
and have been given review samples, including prototypes.

My reviews of their belt sharpeners on BladeForums:

Review - Work Sharp (belt grinder) Knife Sharpener

Review - Work Sharp Knife & Tool Sharpener - Ken Onion Edition

OK that over with -
I have been given privileged information about the Work Sharp "Microforge" for over 2 years now -
others may also have been part of their early test/trial -

Work Sharp sent out two apparently "identical" kitchen knives with different colored handles -
Victorinox/RH Forschner 8" Fibrox Chef - which had been one of the best buys picked by many chefs and ConsumerSearch.com at the time.
WSMicroforgeVic170306.jpg

and we were asked to use and compare them, then take a survey.

I knew something was "special" with the yellow handled one almost straight away when test cutting hanging paper.

But it took a little longer to realize that it seem to cut better on real stuff like food.

.. and it wasn't much longer when I was starting to get pretty d*mned impressed -
so I had to get to the bottom of this -
an USB microscope pic of the edge -
WSMicroforgeVicC170306.jpg


This confirmed my initial impression when cutting paper - there was a kind of zipper/slight discontinuous feel like extremely fine serrations ...
I say that impression with a bit of reservation - it is nothing like the feel of real obvious serrations -
but what one might think micro-serrations would feel like (I hope I have not muddied the description).

.. and it is because of that the knife seem to get the best of both worlds of a good plain edge - but with the bite of serrations.

Now many might say well that can be achieved by "micro-serrations" by only sharpening with a coarse abrasive -
well, only at the beginning - as many well know micro-serrations from coarse abrasives wear out real quick -
these don't.

I was at the Blade Show 2015 - and by then I was so impressed with this edge - I took my favorite kitchen knife
the one I use every single day, a hand forged Shegeki Tanaka stainless steel "Damascus" Santoku -
WSMicroforgeTanakaS170306.jpg

and asked Kyle Crawford of Work Sharp to put a Microforge edge on it -
TanakaSantokuWSMicroF150606.jpg

perhaps the VG-10 steel on my Santoku is harder, or my original edge was more acute at 15deg each side - the Microforge indentations do not look as defined/deep -

BUT the point is with almost two years' of daily use - I have not had to sharpen it -
yes, I do burnish it with a satin smooth steel - but that's it....
and it remains my daily kitchen knife -
I don't even consider anything else (and I have a whole arsenal of kitchen knives).

So is it hard to put on that Microforge edge?
no, it's stupidly simple!

Just firmly pull the edge through a slot - and that's almost it
except to clean up any rough spots on a smooth hone.....

It took Kyle Crawford less than a minute to do my Santoku - which went from my favorite knife to my favorite "amazing" knife.
Might not be obvious if one's knives are sharp anyway - but over time it just will out cut (the dickens) over almost anything.

Don't believe me?

Last year 2016 Blade Show - none other than Ken Onion (who dragged me screaming originally to Work Sharp's stand to see their first belt sharpener...)
was enthusing about the edge.

The gear - I have a prototype from Blade 2016 -
WSMicroforgeSet170306.jpg


The business end is not either of the obvious 2 hones...
but that little slot:
WSMicroforge170306.jpg

like those nasty pull-through sharpeners that massacre one's edge ...
but this is somewhat different -
WSMicroforgeCls170306.jpg

that wheel puts those indentations on the blade...
and the rest is well
close to (you fill in the words)!

--
Vincent

Flickr.com/UnknownVincent/albums
Youtube.com/user/vtVincent
Goo.gl/q91ZNw
UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
 
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Hey thanks! That's pretty cool... knew (or was at least hoping) it was more than a carbide "scraper"... their diagram in my original post with the little triangles, really made me wonder.

Thanks again... good info! Looking forward to it!
 
Hey Guys-

Work Sharp here. Actually, Work Sharp Culinary—our newest brand launching under the Work Sharp name.

I am excited to see the discussion about our new MicroForge technology and stoked to see the curiosity around the process. This is new product with new features and there is a lot to share in the coming months. Product is not available yet and we are working on some animation to help show the process, but let me dig a little deeper into some detail about MicroForge.

MicroForge is a pull-through process that cold forges micro facets into the straight edge of a knife. This technology is not a carbide or scraper. The MicroForge process results in a dual edge blade, where you have portions of smooth edge and portions of these facets. After sharpening, it takes one pass through the MicroForge slot and then a few strokes on the ceramic rod to align the material that was forged out of the blade.

The benefit of MicroForge is that while the smooth edge begins to dull after use, the micro facets stay sharp—creating a more durable edge that stays sharper longer between knife sharpening. Keep in mind, the facets are so small they are equivalent to a human hair.

The edge is optional, and we have found that the edge is great for cutting crusty bread, fruits and veggies, tomatoes, and cooked protein—just to name a few.

We are excited for our debut into the culinary market and from those who have tested the MicroForge edge, the feedback and excitement has been awesome. We look forward sharing more with you in the coming months. Stay Tuned.

33256659316_ea82b83e85_z.jpg
[/url]MicroForge Illustration by Holly Deffenbaugh, on Flickr[/IMG]

Holly- Assistant Brand Manager
 
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micro chipping the blade for a polished toothy edge? yikes, I'm not sure about how I feel about that especially on a expensive knife.
I get the same effect from just doing a coarse edge and making big grit jumps so I leave the teeth but keep them polished.

guess I won't knock it tell I try it but it seems more geared toward the masses.

good luck
 
I'd consider using it for softer Western kitchen stuff, I don't know about high RC or higher carbide, not on any of my knives. As DBH says, I can always use a coarse stone and microbevel on a polishing stone.

Very inventive, had to be a blast tinkering with the prototype.
 
A coarse grit edge doesn't deteriorate quickly if properly apexed, and I'm curious as to how how exactly the "micro-forged" serrations look edge-up under a microscope. Serrations only work if they're sharp and I'm not sure how they're getting a proper apex to the interior of these tiny serrations if they're being produced by cold deformation. It's possible to carefully peen a scythe blade until it's thin enough to just barely start cutting heavy lush grasses, but it requires a lot of careful work with a mirror polished hammer and anvil surface, and that edge is always improved by honing. Maybe they're really on to something here, but from this vantage point I'm more than a little skeptical.
 
Interesting. Guess my off the hip thoughts on the process were incorrect though the final edge is close to what I was picturing in my head.

If their terminology and the use of cold forging is somewhat correct, I don't think you could call it micro chipping. Chipping implies fractures or cracks in the steel that results in pieces of metal breaking off the edge to produce a rough edge. A normal carbide 'scraper' type sharpener probably does this to an extent, ripping out carbides, and actually cutting high and low spots.

From the picture, it appears there is a gear shaped piece of metal with ridges that rotates as the knife is pulled thru so there is no scraping. When you press down on a knife and say an inch of the blade is contacting a stone, etc, that force is spread out evenly over that inch which creates a pressure on the edge. PSI, pounds per square inch or force / area. When the blade touches the ridge on the gear the area is much smaller so the pressure is much higher.

Cold forging is changing the shape of metal minus heat that a knife maker normally uses. It uses high pressure to cause plastic deformations which is moving metal past the point that it springs back to the original position and takes a new set so it's a different shape. It can compress the metal a little so the density goes up and can be slightly harder and also cause the metal to flow so it moves to a new position. I would be curious if the 'facets' create a high spot on the opposite side which then gets ground off with subsequent sharpenings or could make sharpening a little harder as you hit the high spots instead of the edge. It may not happen or may be so small that a pass or 2 grinds off any high spot.

Anyways, most probably already know this stuff but I'm bored and thought I would try to explain it some.

I would be curious if there is any reason not to use this on non kitchen knives? Or maybe it only works on the typically softer steel in kitchen knives and doesn't do much to harder steel or steel with lots of carbide? Will be interesting to see what people think once these are available.
 
Like others said, this approach/technique probably works well for low carbide * low hardness blades.

UnknownVT said:
...
I was at the Blade Show 2015 - and by then I was so impressed with this edge - I took my favorite kitchen knife
the one I use every single day, a hand forged Shegeki Tanaka stainless steel "Damascus" Santoku -
WSMicroforgeTanakaS170306.jpg

and asked Kyle Crawford of Work Sharp to put a Microforge edge on it -
TanakaSantokuWSMicroF150606.jpg

perhaps the VG-10 steel on my Santoku is harder, or my original edge was more acute at 15deg each side - the Microforge indentations do not look as defined/deep -

...
Click to expand...

^ those notches on VG10 @60rc, to me are combination of: chips + ripples + cracks and minor deformation.

So extrapolate to higher hrc & carbide steels = small chips and or cracks (could become stress risers).
 
Here are a few photos of MicroForge applied to half a knife so you can see the difference-

This knife had MicroForge applied to half of the edge for demonstration purposes
A2A3296.jpg


Zooming in, you can see the light hitting the facets in the MicroForge edge


An even closer shot. Please note the facets are three dimensional; one really needs to hold one in their hands and let the light play against the facets to fully understand the geometry.
 
Steve Baker, a Work Sharp engineer, brought MicroForge to Benchmade when he visted a month ago and did tests on edge retention and durability in their edge lab. He measures a significant (as in several-fold) increase in the life of the edge under stress tests.
 
CLoeffler said:
Steve Baker, a Work Sharp engineer, brought MicroForge to Benchmade when he visted a month ago and did tests on edge retention and durability in their edge lab. He measures a significant (as in several-fold) increase in the life of the edge under stress tests.
Click to expand...
any links to this? id like to read this information. or is this info from someone in the industry? im not sure who you are thats why im asking.
 
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