Microforge Technology...

any links to this? id like to read this information. or is this info from someone in the industry? im not sure who you are thats why im asking.

http://www.worksharpculinary.com/features-and-technology/

xtechnology-microforge.jpg.pagespeed.ic.KpompV3FF6.webp


FEATURED ON THE E5 & M3 MODELS.

Work Sharp Culinary’s exclusive MicroForge technology creates a longer lasting, more durable edge with greater cutting control. MicroForge can be applied to any knife through a cold forging process available on the E5 and M3 sharpeners. MicroForge applies micro-facets to the cutting edge of the knife blade. The resulting combination of straight and faceted cutting edges enhances cutting performance with veggies, fruits, cooked proteins, and your favorite freshly baked breads.
 
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Sorry... I didn't pay attention to the fact you were referencing the testing Steve did at Benchmade. Steve is out on a motorcycle adventure this week, but when he's back in town I'll get that info for you. I'm responding as a Darex representative :)
 
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Certainly curious to see what this "stress testing" was that it was superior in, and how that compares with conventional well-done serrations.
 
Certainly curious to see what this "stress testing" was that it was superior in, and how that compares with conventional well-done serrations.

While we have a complete battery of tests to perform with different edges and steels before we would make official claims, one of our engineers ran six identical 154CM blades with a 15 degree angle through a CATRA tester at the Benchmade engineering office with no MicroForge, light MicroForge (gentle pressure used in the MicroForge process), and heavy MicroForge (assertive pressure used in MicroForge process).
The results revealed slightly less sharpness in the first couple of cuts with the MicroForged knives, but by the third test cycle the lightly MicroForged knife was at equal sharpness with the original edge and by the fifth test cycle the MicroForged edge was actually sharper. By the 20th test cycle the MicroForged edge was significantly sharper than the original edge in both cases. The heavily MicroForged knives started out slightly less sharp than the straight and light MicroForge but tested sharper than the straight edge by the sixth test cycle and sharper than the lightly MicroForged edges by the 10th test cycle and ended the sharpest of the blades.

So what does all that mean? In this test, MicroForge stayed sharp for longer than a straight edge. All knives passed the paper cutting test at the beginning of the trial, so the difference in sharpness at the beginning wasn't enough for most users to notice, but by the 20th cycle the heavily MicroForge edge tested sharper than the straight edge was in the 11th test cycle.

How does MicroForge feel? In a paper test, there is a slightly "zippery" feel but it doesn't snag nor perform worse than a straight edge.
 
okay so instead of one long blade, its now several tiny blades. and because of tha angle/geometry of those serrations they are more stable?
 
While we have a complete battery of tests to perform with different edges and steels before we would make official claims, one of our engineers ran six identical 154CM blades with a 15 degree angle through a CATRA tester at the Benchmade engineering office with no MicroForge, light MicroForge (gentle pressure used in the MicroForge process), and heavy MicroForge (assertive pressure used in MicroForge process).
The results revealed slightly less sharpness in the first couple of cuts with the MicroForged knives, but by the third test cycle the lightly MicroForged knife was at equal sharpness with the original edge and by the fifth test cycle the MicroForged edge was actually sharper. By the 20th test cycle the MicroForged edge was significantly sharper than the original edge in both cases. The heavily MicroForged knives started out slightly less sharp than the straight and light MicroForge but tested sharper than the straight edge by the sixth test cycle and sharper than the lightly MicroForged edges by the 10th test cycle and ended the sharpest of the blades.

So what does all that mean? In this test, MicroForge stayed sharp for longer than a straight edge. All knives passed the paper cutting test at the beginning of the trial, so the difference in sharpness at the beginning wasn't enough for most users to notice, but by the 20th cycle the heavily MicroForge edge tested sharper than the straight edge was in the 11th test cycle.

How does MicroForge feel? In a paper test, there is a slightly "zippery" feel but it doesn't snag nor perform worse than a straight edge.

I'd be interested in a comparison of a plain-edged Victorinox paring knife vs. a "micro-forged" edge vs. their standard production fine serrated edge. This strikes me as essentially doing nothing more than adding micro-serrations that are subjected to less wear due to being recessed behind the primary cutting line. Certainly novel, but how deep do they run? If one "micro-forged" their edge and wanted to revert to a plain edge, how much blade width would have to be removed?
 
Please allow me to chime in.

I've been waiting for over 2 years to talk about this....

UnknownVT, you did a great job sharing your experience at Blade Show with our Work Sharp Outdoors brand manager. Know that how hard you are willing to push on a knife, will determine how deep and how pronounced the microforging will appear, therefore you will notice it more or less depending on how hard you push. Per our instructions we say to apply “downward pressure like cutting a sweet potato.” This can vary depending on the sweet potato, so throwing out the spec of 2-4 lbs of downward force may help. This range ensures people are safe and that the resulting microforge is easily removable. If people want more they can do it, and likely will as they get more use to it.
 
micro chipping the blade for a polished toothy edge? yikes, I'm not sure about how I feel about that especially on a expensive knife.
I get the same effect from just doing a coarse edge and making big grit jumps so I leave the teeth but keep them polished.

guess I won't knock it tell I try it but it seems more geared toward the masses.

good luck

DeadboxHero, you are right on. This is what we are doing with the M3 (320 grit diamond to ceramic hone = grit jump). Grit jump as you describe it is missing one very important thing…edge durability. The edge lasts even longer when instead of small toothy diamond indentations you have recessed surfaces that have been honed and are sharp. I believe your method would create a similar experience initially, but only last as long as the edge does, whereas MicroForge will keep going.
 
I'd consider using it for softer Western kitchen stuff, I don't know about high RC or higher carbide, not on any of my knives. As DBH says, I can always use a coarse stone and microbevel on a polishing stone.

In our years of testing and engineering, we do not find MicroForging with harder knives to be an issue. Hardness of the knife is almost a moot point when it comes to MicroForging; what is important is the geometry of the knife, the angle of the MicroForge, the amount of pressure that you apply, and the surface roughness of the wheel doing the deforming. Our design takes care of everything but the geometry of the knife and the amount of pressure. Keep the pressure light, and don't MicroForge a knife that isn't already sharp! Basically…use as directed.
 
Any testing on how long a micro forged edge lasts... before it has to be re-microforged?

Our instructional manual that states it should be used 1-2 times per year on a given knife, but this varies. If you do a lot of sharpening on your knives, you may end up wanting to MicroForge more often.
 
Wow deep do they run? If one "micro-forged" their edge and wanted to revert to a plain edge, how much blade width would have to be removed?

What happens if you microforge too much? Nothing really, although if the facets do not line up, which is unlikely, then you will reduce the amount of straight blade that you have. People can do it and it won't hurt anything, but we don't see the benefit.

To remove microforge it takes 1-2 full sharpening cycles on the E5, or approximately 60 strokes on the diamond rod. If you are looking for an actual dimension, testing shows MicroForge on average is about 5 microns deep, therefore one would need to remove about 5 microns from their knife edge. MicroForging typically stays within the microbevel region of the blade.

If you only want to dabble in the MicroForge, use light pressure the first time, and it will quickly be removed. If you want to have the full life that Steve experienced at Benchmade, then you will need to push harder. Cautious customers can start small and work their way up. :)
 
In our years of testing and engineering, we do not find MicroForging with harder knives to be an issue. Hardness of the knife is almost a moot point when it comes to MicroForging; what is important is the geometry of the knife, the angle of the MicroForge, the amount of pressure that you apply, and the surface roughness of the wheel doing the deforming. Our design takes care of everything but the geometry of the knife and the amount of pressure. Keep the pressure light, and don't MicroForge a knife that isn't already sharp! Basically…use as directed.

I'll have to see to believe. Benchmade's 154cm for example is hard and tough enough to prevent a file from cutting cleanly. Any process that uses direct pressure/plastic deformation to change the shape of the edge on higher RC steel I would expect to chip or at least fail to create a clean depression. With repeated passes unlikely to index to each other, it sounds like potential trouble compared to using a coarse stone and a fine microbevel (though admittedly requiring much less user skill!).


The pics on page one show effects many times deeper than 5 microns, which might not even be visible to the naked eye without bright light and some magnification. Those appear visible with a cursory glance. A coarse stone is capable of creating formations equal to or much larger than 5 micron.

Don't get me wrong, I'd expect on the right steel alloy and RC this approach will yield good results - on other steels not so much.
 
I'll have to see to believe. Benchmade's 154cm for example is hard and tough enough to prevent a file from cutting cleanly. Any process that uses direct pressure/plastic deformation to change the shape of the edge on higher RC steel I would expect to chip or at least fail to create a clean depression. With repeated passes unlikely to index to each other, it sounds like potential trouble compared to using a coarse stone and a fine microbevel (though admittedly requiring much less user skill!).

Ask and you shall receive. The two images below are the exact same Benchmade 154 blades used to test with their original MF application. As you can tell, the amount of material deformed in the Heavy application (first image) is significantly more but there still aren't fissures or cracks. Could someone with a crazy hard steel applying excessive pressure damage a blade? Potentially, but that amount of pressure would be far outside of the standard usage. :)

One of the biggest advantages to MicroForge over a toothy edge is that MicroForge can be toothy or shave sharp, depending on the initial edge and MF application.
Mico_Heavy.jpg
 
What is the micron number for the M3 diamond rod?

What is the micron number for the polished ceramic rod?

Thanks in advance -

Rupert
 
What happens if the little serration channels don't line up through various microforgings?
 
I think I scared WorkSharp off, (asking for early shipping). ;)

I got the "MicroForge" M3 Sharpener in a few days ago, and have been trying it out.

What is the micron number for the M3 diamond rod?

What is the micron number for the polished ceramic rod?

The diamond rod is rated "320 grit"... like most diamonds it feels more coarse new... right now probably comparable to a DMT XC stone (which is around 60 micron). The ceramic isn't rated in the material... like most quality ceramics it feels "fine" around 1200g or so. Half of the WorkSharp ceramic is actually ribbed, making it a bit more aggressive (although I haven't tested to see if it leaves a more coarse finish than the "unribbed" portion... it is better at cleaning up an edge though).

What happens if the little serration channels don't line up through various microforgings?

I tried this... it appears, since the Microforge is basically a "ribbed wheel", it quickly 'finds' and aligns itself with the previous use.

As for the MicroForge, I would say it works as advertised. I've tested it on a few "common" kitchen knives (Henckels International, Faberware, Tramontina NSF knives... it is the "Culinary" division after all), and here's what I would say:
  • Ease of Use: Definitely an 'A' in this category. Following the included instructions, the knives came out looking just like the advertising, and performed well.
  • Quality: I'd give an 'A' here too. The setup is durable, and should last the average user a lifetime.
  • The MicroForge Edge: After sharpening the knife entirely on the 'M3', it passed all the standard tests... paper slicing, shaving arm hair, etc. To the touch (3 finger test), you can feel the fine "roughness" of the edge... not really "teeth" like a serration, but it does make the edge more aggressive. As mentioned earlier, there's a bit of a "zipper feel", to the touch, and as the edge cuts, but it didn't hang or seem to affect the overall performance. (Another example, you can lightly run the edge of a fingernail both directions down the edge, and it feels like a "zipper" but doesn't hang).
  • For a sample test... I sharpened two identical knives the same, then gave one knife a MicroForge edge. I then tested the knife on a squishy tomato, and it clearly performed better at penetrating and starting the initial cut (once this was done, there really wasn't a difference between the two). I then cut a bit of cardboard, and could tell the Microforge edge was a bit more aggressive in slicing thru. (I would "mix up" the knives in both tests... in an effort to not know which was which, although I know there's bias/issues in this method). Other testing produced similar results. I haven't done any longevity testing, so can't say if it will be different long term.
Overall, my initial impression is it works as advertised... easily, and with little "know-how", creating an edge that gives a bit of bite, and exhibiting some of the benefits of a coarse or even a 'small serrated' edge, while maintaining the use and ease of maintenance of a straight edge. I don't think it's an "earth shattering" development for regular members of this forum... I'm sure most sharpeners here are capable of putting a better edge on a knife, but it should give the average home user a simple yet effective way of creating and maintaining a great "working edge" (or even a commercial sharpener, who wants a quick and easy way to finish an edge, and leave it with a bit of "bite", and especially beneficial if it increases the length of time the edge cuts). I can see the potential of giving someone you sharpen a knife for, that does little maintenance, a more aggressive and (potentially) longer lasting edge, as well as an edge they can maintain easily. It would be nice if it came with a little "storage pouch" or something to keep it all together. It'll be interesting to see if I can tell a difference in performance over time between the two knives.
 
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