A-MAC
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I was visiting this thread to post the same article. Some nameless person from Kershaw dared me too? That's a pretty lame excuse that is basically impossible to substantiate.
Natrix vs matrix the 0777 quagmire
- Thread starter Mo2
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I was visiting this thread to post the same article. Some nameless person from Kershaw dared me too? That's a pretty lame excuse that is basically impossible to substantiate.
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What other designs has he ripped off?
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Did you read the PDF file? Microtech challenged KAI's patent claim in the letter (called it "dubious") stating that AM and other makers had prior use (and pictures to prove it), and KAI backed off. Neither company makes this in a left-handed version, so I have no dog in the fight, and KAI/ZT's customer service is way beyond Microtech's ($30 for me to get a pocket clip for my UTX-85! and they wanted me to send it in for the swap), but it is good to know both sides' version of events.
I've owned a ZT0801 and a 0808, so there's no question KAI can come up with great stuff. I'm a little upset with ZT, however... for landing a collaboration with Todd Rexford. I would have preferred he work with Benchmade so I could have a Rexford Axis lock knife!
yes, girl named tony smoked weed too much, right?
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Marfione doesn't strike me as a clever fellow... quite the opposite in fact. And crass, that is often associated with reduced cognitive function
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The more I read about this story the more it saddens me. Mainly because I think AM has talent, but it is overshadowed by his lack of integrity. AM lifted a great knife design (0777) and I honestly think he made it look even more badass. He definitely has a talent for adding flare to a knife in all the right places. Too bad he didn't seek approval/collaboration before going into production.
At this point I am not sure if there is anyway for AM to make lemonade out of these lemons.
At this point I am not sure if there is anyway for AM to make lemonade out of these lemons.
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I have seen the recent social media posts as well. Some people just keep digging a deeper hole.
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Since the designs itself has no possible ip protection beyond the sub frame lock there isnt a whole lot that can be done. Especially since tony changed the blade shape. The actual shape of the knife is out in the open and there are no current laws protecting the look of an object unless its present in all items the company sells and is trademarked. After the lawsuit tony was quick to change the lockbar. It still looks like a sub frame lock but tat is just a clever way he is doing the overlay.
Well that seems like a dick move to keep selling the design they admittedly stolen. Also a dick move to keep posting images of Matrix on social media to provoke. I guess being an a**hole isn't illegal.
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I got on the list to purchase one, a good looking knife and only 2.9 oz.
:thumbup:
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This has been pointed out by misanthropia on IG
Tony is now suing everyday commentary for the natrix article. the article that was posted in the first page is now gone. not even google cache. damn it for not copy pasting it. wayback machine got it captured https://web.archive.org/web/2017012...1/the-story-behind-greatest-knife-of-all.html
what a class A Dickhead
article here http://pennrecord.com/stories/51108...husetts-attorney-defamed-him-and-his-business
screenshot
Tony is now suing everyday commentary for the natrix article. the article that was posted in the first page is now gone. not even google cache. damn it for not copy pasting it. wayback machine got it captured https://web.archive.org/web/2017012...1/the-story-behind-greatest-knife-of-all.html
what a class A Dickhead
article here http://pennrecord.com/stories/51108...husetts-attorney-defamed-him-and-his-business
screenshot
Friday, January 20, 2017
It starts with the Zero Tolerance ZT0777, the first of the Triple Ubers. These three knives--the ZT0777, ZT0888, and ZT0999 have all pushed what is possible in knife making. Each was a new high water mark, an achievement in the craft of cutlery. The ZT0777 tried to do something that literally only KAI USA could do. You see, they have the patent on brazed blades, that is the composite process that results in a spine of one steel and the cutting edge of another. In the case of ZT0777 they were attempting to make a composite of Damascus and another steel. Even if there wasn't a patent on the brazing process, to this day, no one, custom or production, has attempted this feat.
But as is often the case when you push the envelope, it sometimes pushes back. The process of making the ZT0777 was difficult and in the end only a handful of the composite blade versions were released. The run was finished out with M390 blades. But KAI USA tried for a very long time. During that trial and error period, Microtech, maker of autos of all kind, decided to blatantly copy the ZT0777 and released their version, with the much less ambitious blade steel (Elmax, if I remeber correctly), as the Matrix. When word got out, the knife world went, justifiably, bananas.
One thing that people don't seem to understand in the knife world, is that designs cannot be subject to intellectual property protection, either patents or trademarks. Patents are designed to protect inventions and trademarks are designed to protect branding elements (logos, symbols, and wordmarks...very rarely sounds too). A knife design, how it looks, is neither an invention nor a branding element. So it may be possible to patent a locking mechanism, which happens all of the time (and is relevant later in the story of the Natrix), but it is not possible to patent a knife design. I suppose a sufficiently complex and different knife might be eligible for patent protection, something like the Caswell Linkage karambit, but it would a rarity. And so, when Anthony Marifone and Microtech blantantly stole the design for the ZT0777, despite the hew and cry online, there was little KAI USA could do. They had to watch while a lesser maker simply ripped them off.
When they decided to make the ZT0770, a smaller, tamer version of the ZT0777, they again were beat to market by Marifone the intellectual property thief. Microtech released the Mini Matrix. Eventually both knives faded out of Microtech's line and I don't believe either were especially good sellers, but it was an episode that did real harm to the knife business. Makers complain about their designs being ripped off by Kevin Johns and the Chinese, but here we have someone in America doing something just as bad. In my mind it is worse because unlike the folks at Kevin Johns, Marfione has the talent and capacity to make something better, he just chooses not to. Stealing other people's good ideas is easier, apparently.
And this was not the end to Marfione's pilfery of KAI USA's good ideas. ZT introduced a variant on the framelock, call the subframe lock, on the ZT0777 as well
and has since been incorporated into designs all across the KAI USA line up.* Well, Marfione's laziness and greed got the better of him and he copied the subframe lock and released it on his knives. But this time he stole an invention, one that was subject to intellectual property protection, and KAI called him on it. After a lawyer letter to Microtech from KAI USA, they ceased making the subframe lock. But again, it is a sign of Marfione's nature--three times he has stolen from KAI.
So when I got my press preview of the Kershaw 2017 line up I saw the Natrix and I literally laughed out loud. Matrix--Natrix...HA! Is it a portmanteau for Not Matrix? Maybe....Sitting in my home office, at around 10:30 PM, I chuckled. Kershaw is producing a copy of a rip off of the ZT0777. Talk about making lemonade...But then I read the copy in the catalog more closely and it is clear that they are taking aim at Marfione--they mention someone really liking the design. That is GREAT!
But there is a deeper level here, one that confirms for me that this is the greatest knife story, and knife, of all time. Being a fan of dinosaurs has led me to an appreciation for taxonomy and I remembered in the crevices of my brain the word "natrix." After a chat with a fellow in the know, I had full recall--Natrix is the genus of a snake, in particular, a group of grass snakes. So here you have the Natrix, a knife aimed at Anthony Marfione, and it is named after a snake in the grass. How wonderfully delicious!
In life, as adults, we rarely get the chance to give someone their comeuppance. Growing up is a process of learning how to move on from folks that are assholes and jerks to you, knowing that seeking vengeance is expensive and rarely healthy. But sometimes the stars align and you get that chance. This is KAI USA's chance. This is a clear broadside aimed at Marfione. I wish them all of the luck in the world.
And so I am going to go buy my Natrix, not because I am all that interested in the knife, but because I want to show support for KAI USA in their battle against lesser craftsmen that act like theives. It sucks to have stuff stolen. It is worse when you get punished for trying to achieve greatness. But it is awesome that you get to make a profit on giving some snake his comeuppance.
The Kershaw Natrix--the greatest knife of all time. Oh and #fuckthematrix
CORRECTION: I erroneously wrote that the ZT0454 was the first sub frame lock. It was the ZT0777. Here is how the sentence originally read: "It first came to market on the ZT0454 and has since been incorporated into designs all across the KAI USA line up." The corrected portion is followed by an asterisk.
It starts with the Zero Tolerance ZT0777, the first of the Triple Ubers. These three knives--the ZT0777, ZT0888, and ZT0999 have all pushed what is possible in knife making. Each was a new high water mark, an achievement in the craft of cutlery. The ZT0777 tried to do something that literally only KAI USA could do. You see, they have the patent on brazed blades, that is the composite process that results in a spine of one steel and the cutting edge of another. In the case of ZT0777 they were attempting to make a composite of Damascus and another steel. Even if there wasn't a patent on the brazing process, to this day, no one, custom or production, has attempted this feat.
But as is often the case when you push the envelope, it sometimes pushes back. The process of making the ZT0777 was difficult and in the end only a handful of the composite blade versions were released. The run was finished out with M390 blades. But KAI USA tried for a very long time. During that trial and error period, Microtech, maker of autos of all kind, decided to blatantly copy the ZT0777 and released their version, with the much less ambitious blade steel (Elmax, if I remeber correctly), as the Matrix. When word got out, the knife world went, justifiably, bananas.
One thing that people don't seem to understand in the knife world, is that designs cannot be subject to intellectual property protection, either patents or trademarks. Patents are designed to protect inventions and trademarks are designed to protect branding elements (logos, symbols, and wordmarks...very rarely sounds too). A knife design, how it looks, is neither an invention nor a branding element. So it may be possible to patent a locking mechanism, which happens all of the time (and is relevant later in the story of the Natrix), but it is not possible to patent a knife design. I suppose a sufficiently complex and different knife might be eligible for patent protection, something like the Caswell Linkage karambit, but it would a rarity. And so, when Anthony Marifone and Microtech blantantly stole the design for the ZT0777, despite the hew and cry online, there was little KAI USA could do. They had to watch while a lesser maker simply ripped them off.
When they decided to make the ZT0770, a smaller, tamer version of the ZT0777, they again were beat to market by Marifone the intellectual property thief. Microtech released the Mini Matrix. Eventually both knives faded out of Microtech's line and I don't believe either were especially good sellers, but it was an episode that did real harm to the knife business. Makers complain about their designs being ripped off by Kevin Johns and the Chinese, but here we have someone in America doing something just as bad. In my mind it is worse because unlike the folks at Kevin Johns, Marfione has the talent and capacity to make something better, he just chooses not to. Stealing other people's good ideas is easier, apparently.
And this was not the end to Marfione's pilfery of KAI USA's good ideas. ZT introduced a variant on the framelock, call the subframe lock, on the ZT0777 as well
and has since been incorporated into designs all across the KAI USA line up.* Well, Marfione's laziness and greed got the better of him and he copied the subframe lock and released it on his knives. But this time he stole an invention, one that was subject to intellectual property protection, and KAI called him on it. After a lawyer letter to Microtech from KAI USA, they ceased making the subframe lock. But again, it is a sign of Marfione's nature--three times he has stolen from KAI.
So when I got my press preview of the Kershaw 2017 line up I saw the Natrix and I literally laughed out loud. Matrix--Natrix...HA! Is it a portmanteau for Not Matrix? Maybe....Sitting in my home office, at around 10:30 PM, I chuckled. Kershaw is producing a copy of a rip off of the ZT0777. Talk about making lemonade...But then I read the copy in the catalog more closely and it is clear that they are taking aim at Marfione--they mention someone really liking the design. That is GREAT!
But there is a deeper level here, one that confirms for me that this is the greatest knife story, and knife, of all time. Being a fan of dinosaurs has led me to an appreciation for taxonomy and I remembered in the crevices of my brain the word "natrix." After a chat with a fellow in the know, I had full recall--Natrix is the genus of a snake, in particular, a group of grass snakes. So here you have the Natrix, a knife aimed at Anthony Marfione, and it is named after a snake in the grass. How wonderfully delicious!
In life, as adults, we rarely get the chance to give someone their comeuppance. Growing up is a process of learning how to move on from folks that are assholes and jerks to you, knowing that seeking vengeance is expensive and rarely healthy. But sometimes the stars align and you get that chance. This is KAI USA's chance. This is a clear broadside aimed at Marfione. I wish them all of the luck in the world.
And so I am going to go buy my Natrix, not because I am all that interested in the knife, but because I want to show support for KAI USA in their battle against lesser craftsmen that act like theives. It sucks to have stuff stolen. It is worse when you get punished for trying to achieve greatness. But it is awesome that you get to make a profit on giving some snake his comeuppance.
The Kershaw Natrix--the greatest knife of all time. Oh and #fuckthematrix
CORRECTION: I erroneously wrote that the ZT0454 was the first sub frame lock. It was the ZT0777. Here is how the sentence originally read: "It first came to market on the ZT0454 and has since been incorporated into designs all across the KAI USA line up." The corrected portion is followed by an asterisk.
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- Jul 10, 2011
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I'm just amazed no one found out about this earlier, myself included. I wish Tony all of the best in this case and I have a lot of confidence he will be successful here. If someone starts a fundraiser for his legal fees I would be glad to donate.
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- Jan 31, 2012
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Nope, what I said was correct. The 0770 was a smaller, more affordable production homage to the 0777. And I believe that this Natrix, which is the same size as a 0770, is what I thought the 0770 should have been from the beginning.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2016
- Messages
- 95
Knife News just published an article on the lawsuit.
http://knifenews.com/microtech-and-anthony-marfione-suing-blogger/
http://knifenews.com/microtech-and-anthony-marfione-suing-blogger/
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