New Lionsteel knife: M4

Just made the leap into Lionsteel last week. Placed an order for a TRE in Ti & bronze and the M4 in walnut. The M4 delivered today.

Amazing knife for the money. The grind is beautiful as is the edge and the tip. The contoured edge around this M390 just makes the whole knife feel special.

Was going to wait in line for a GSO 4.1, and so very glad I took this path. Very, very happy camper here.

All that said, the scales feel and look beyond stabilized wood. It's almost like my Kupilka cup. More synthetic than wood fiber. Maybe it's the sample I received?

How are you guys treating the scales? Mineral oil or something else?

Not to derail much, but I just picked up a blue Ti TRE. Mine is a much better flipper than its reputation, although the thumb stud is almost unusable for a right-handed person. Fantastic little gent's knife.
 
Ended up putting a light coating of mineral oil and pleased with the results. Almost went with the black G10 for longer term durability. Now that I see how the wood scales for the M4 are made, very happy to have one in walnut. Nice and lightweight with character and no worries regarding durability or exposure to the elements. The milled texture and grip resulting from it is on par with micarta IMO.

My bronze Ti TRE delivered yesterday as well - so very nice. The bronze elements on the TRE are a nice match to the walnut on the M4.

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Having stalked this knife for a while i finally decided to pull the trigger, the shop showed it as "availible in 20 days" and for under 140€ so i tried it out thinking id have enough time and its probably a mistake with the price anyway.
In two days they send me a message that its in stock and on the way and a day later (today) i received it.

First of all, its really gorgerous, however as a nitpicking perfectionist i decided to mention as many bad things as i can (we all know the good stuff but it is very difficult to find the bad stuff among the amounts of good reviews)

I purchased the G10 version thinking of durability and easy of care - the disadvantage is weight which might or might not be an issue for you (ill mention it a few times more) I really wanted the wood for leight weight and appearance but a good argument of my friend made me decide. "You can always make your own wooden scales" G10 wont break on me.

At first when i get something this expensive (for me it is) i am very careful with it and pay attention to details...

Anyway time to nitpick!
- The fit and finish is very nice, the edge is SLIGHTLY wider at the end and the tip shows me that the right side (looking from top) has been sharpened SLIGHTLY more. its a different of mere tenths of a milimeter :)
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- the inside of the choil (the outsticking part between the handle and the sharp edge) is sharp on the inside (this doesnt matter much since noone touches it, but then the sheath kinda cares about this...
- searching online i got the information that the olive handles have a balance point at the place where the first screw is, compred to that the G10 has its balance point about 1cm further. This makes the knife feel slightly heavy. (i dont have wooden scales to compare it though)

Thats about all i have as far as blade goes all the other nitpicks are about the sheath.
But first, here are some more things i tried with the edge out of the box
paper cut - too easy
push cut tissue paper - nope, cant
shaving arm hair - VERY good
cutting cardboard - bites in easily
shaving facial hair dry - no way - i havent had even a polished edge do that though (i really enjoy the angle of the M4, its right where it should be IMO)
cutting an apple in half with a push - too thick, i had to rotate the apple (didnt want to scratch my table so i did not use too much force)
peeling an apple - I fell like the wooden scales would do a much better job at this, the knife feels very heavy in reverse grip trying to get close control on the edge (It cuts very well though) the balance point makes me hold the knife with a lot force and my finger is right in the walley where the olive scales have their balance point, my hand hurt after a single apple so this isnt the best knife for that. This is not a cooking knife! (it did cut pretty well though)
slicing apple pieces - very good again
Youve all seen it with wood already...

Now about the sheath...
- It comes kinda stiff, i would like to treat it somehow (PLEASE HELP, here are things i have home and could maybe use? Shoe cream, linseed oil for wood, cooking oils like sunflower and olive, water.. wd40? i dont know anymore.. suggestions welcome)
- the button is not perfectly centered
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- Pulling the knife out takes some force, which is okay, opening the rivet takes quite some force too (i know how to solve this, do you?)

- Putting the knife back the knife gets stuck a whole 5 times. Since the knife is very sharp i am careful with leather and dont want to cut it.
The first stop is when the handle hits the end of the belt loop (probably wont happen with the belt on)
The second stop is when the tip of the blade hits the leather hump inside (tried to put it in sliding on the handle, side, top and havent found a 100% succes in not stabbing the leather)
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The third stop is when the sharp edge of the knife hits the strap of the leather (which wont allow it to continue until moved out of the way)
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The fourth stop is when the scales hit the metal part holding the strap (its a rivet too right?) Interesting thing to notice is that the top part where the button rivet is, is covered with some piece of cloth tape or so,
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while the bottom rivet is uncovered (the rivet isnt sharp though)
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- i might try to cover it with something later. (A permanent solution would be to attach this strap to the back side of the sheaths belt loop, it would be hidden and as far as i can see it would still work the same.)
And finally the retention of the sheath stops it for the fifth time

I admit that most of these dont happen when you are more forceful and just push it in but i dont want to cut the sheath. the strap for example i believe will loosen up with time, but already now due to the sharp edge it has marks on it (ive had the knife for around 20 minutes)

- Due to the stiffness of the sheath i barely could fit my belt through - which i actually like it holds firmly (but the button is stronger nevertheless)
- You cant put it on when your belt is already on (the M5 had this option, i wonder why they changed it)
- I havent found a single spot on my belt where it would be comfotable to take out and put in with one hand.
I am right handed -
Left side for cross draw - best option but not ideal
Right side - uncomfortable in my shoulders both in and out, cant really grab it - im quite flexible at that
back side - cant see or feel anything

I guess i will have to come up with a good way to carry it and make a sheath. It does fit in my deep pocket though.

- The sheath for G10 could be black, as i heard mentioned in some thread, it does stick out quite a lot on my black pants
- The sheath hang very low and thus is exposed even more and isnt very conceal-able, i can imagine a cross draw carry sheath very well.

Allright thats everything i got. I think.
The sheath is really high quality and the leather is really nice and so is the knife. TBH i forget every nitpick when i use the knife, it is a worker. Does its job VERY well.
Already after about ten minutes of resheating most of the problems are not happening so often, but they still happen.

I really tried to be as negative as possible but this knife is really good.

EDIT: added pictures, i hope they will stay up but i have no experience with the picture site
 
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Well after half day of carrying it (decided for back carry with the sheath hidden in my back pocket, the knife is small enough so that it does not get in the way when moving too much) i can tell its a great knife.
I have a great feeling when i use the knife and it really is comfortable, the grooves in the handle are very smooth but add to the grip and the handle is also comfortably warm in my hand.
Getting used to the sheath, its already getting loose, i made the rivet slightly weaker.
I forgot to mention before that a piece of the sheath wasnt glued properly or perhaps its on purpose
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its obvious that its due to forming the sheath though. repaitring it will be possible but quite challenging. I am already getting scratches from the knifes tip right at the beggining of the hump i mentioned before (thats also the place where the threads of the belt loop are)
I was able to one hand operate the knife, however the sharp edge of the guard still hits the leather strap and unless anyone of you tells me a good reason to keep it that way i will most likely sand it down to prevent damage. Re-sheathing it often gets stuck there and i feel like im done and if i were to let go of the knife at that point i would regret it a lot. I doubt just sanding the edge until its dull will solve this problem completely... i will have to do something about the strap as well. Ill try bending it out of the way until it remembers that position.

The more i use it the more i like it.
For fellow flashlight fans, this feels like a pocket 18650 light with close to 2000 lumens, it looks kinda ok when you carry it, it can be carried easily but you do feel the weight and every time you use it, it has an inner wow effect. (admited flashlights wow effect also spreads around while the knife only makes its user happy)

EDIT: I just noticed i already have black marks on the leather around the rivet from the G10 hitting it
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- suggest me what to cover it with, i kinda doubt duct tape will hold (i would be really scared with the tiny grooves hitting the metal with wood handles, but its not that sharp afterall)
 
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I know I am kind of late to this thread but I have to ask,

On the first page there was some talk about 60 hrc "secondary hardness" and some talk about what secondary hardness means. However I really didn't understand what this so called secondary hardness means. Can someone please clear this up for me? I NEED to know. Well I am atleast pretty curious.
 
I know I am kind of late to this thread but I have to ask,

On the first page there was some talk about 60 hrc "secondary hardness" and some talk about what secondary hardness means. However I really didn't understand what this so called secondary hardness means. Can someone please clear this up for me? I NEED to know. Well I am atleast pretty curious.

As far as i understand it with this knife, its a secondary quenching in sub zero temperatures to reach the desired properties. (im pretty sure it was me who asked about that)
I don't think secondary hardness is a good term though, that would be more likely a differently quenched blade with different hardness at edge and the rest of hte knife, which the lionsteel m4 isnt (at least that is what the term sounds like to me)
 
Thanks for your thoughts TigFur!

I am very used to buying aftermarket sheaths after having chased Busses and 'kin' knives that do not come with factory sheaths. So for the M4 I have a kydex sheath coming from Mashed Cat kydex. I think it will likely solve the issues you describe with the leather sheath, although it does add to the overall cost of the knife. It all depends at that point on 'if it is worth it to me' which it is with this M4. The kydex is going to allow a lot more carry options and one-handed operation with no strap to get cut. It's not going to look as nice as the leather though.

Does anybody know if the M4 tang is skeletonized or solid? I haven't tried to pull the scales and mine is at the sheathmaker.
 
As far as i understand it with this knife, its a secondary quenching in sub zero temperatures to reach the desired properties. (im pretty sure it was me who asked about that)
I don't think secondary hardness is a good term though, that would be more likely a differently quenched blade with different hardness at edge and the rest of hte knife, which the lionsteel m4 isnt (at least that is what the term sounds like to me)

No....
 
Thanks for your thoughts TigFur!

I am very used to buying aftermarket sheaths after having chased Busses and 'kin' knives that do not come with factory sheaths. So for the M4 I have a kydex sheath coming from Mashed Cat kydex. I think it will likely solve the issues you describe with the leather sheath, although it does add to the overall cost of the knife. It all depends at that point on 'if it is worth it to me' which it is with this M4. The kydex is going to allow a lot more carry options and one-handed operation with no strap to get cut. It's not going to look as nice as the leather though.

Does anybody know if the M4 tang is skeletonized or solid? I haven't tried to pull the scales and mine is at the sheathmaker.
Thanks, I am still torn between making a new one and using this one. I will keep using it until it gets on my nerves too much, i get used to it, or it gets cut and ruined. Kydex is very expensive in my country and i dont have much experience with it. It definately is faster though, i only own one knife with kydex and the only thing bothering me with that was when it got dragged by anything the knife slid out (bumping into soft stuff as its on the waist, or leaning on the table as its on the neck)
I think its solid considering the weight. Just a guess.

Well you are the expert here, elaborate!

...now i have a question to everyone else. Do you find the same nitpicks/issues as me on your sheath? (especially the rivet, strap and unglued part)
 
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I am very used to buying aftermarket sheaths after having chased Busses and 'kin' knives that do not come with factory sheaths. So for the M4 I have a kydex sheath coming from Mashed Cat kydex. I think it will likely solve the issues you describe with the leather sheath, although it does add to the overall cost of the knife. It all depends at that point on 'if it is worth it to me' which it is with this M4. The kydex is going to allow a lot more carry options and one-handed operation with no strap to get cut. It's not going to look as nice as the leather though.

Does anybody know if the M4 tang is skeletonized or solid? I haven't tried to pull the scales and mine is at the sheathmaker.[/QUOTE]
Let me know how you like it, I'm very interested in a kydex option for my m4
 
BTW i tested with a drop of water and the leather already seems to be treated in some water resistant way, even on the inside!
 
Let me know how you like it, I'm very interested in a kydex option for my m4

Absolutely. I went with the pancake version since the scales are G10. That option seems to allow for the best draw/resheath with G10 scales. With micarta or wood, both his pancake and taco style work great. The G10 material is hard and the taco style sheath is very stiff. So the lack of 'give' between materials steers me toward the pancake style for blades with G10 scales.

Thanks for this. I sent Eric an email with a few questions. Did you send him the knife, or did he have one to make the sheath around?

I sent my knife down to Eric, and he has confirmed receipt of it, so he has it right now. I don't mind if he builds a couple more sheaths off of it either, if you or others want one. Although for the very best fit, I personally like for Eric to have my knife in his hands so that the sheath is fit exactly to my blade. However, these Lionsteels may be dimensionally close enough that a pattern knife would suffice, and it would be my guess that it would work well.
 
As noticed by TigFur, the saber grind on the M4 is asymmetric ; when I received the knife, I immediatly noticed that - and that bugged me. So, I sent the knife for regrinding/sharpening to a fellow knife enthusiast (that used a Wicked Edge Field and Sport Pro) and found out that it wasn't the sharpening line that was the problem, it was the blade itself !

Let me clarify that : the blade grind is wrong, the left side/cheek has more "meat"/metal than the right side. For a knife with a 160 euro price tag, you get (at least, me and TigFur, if no one else) an uneven grinded knife blade, with asymmetric edge.

How can the chinese clone makers make symmetric blades, but LionSteel can't (like the fake/clone Striders, Sebenza, etc.) ? HOW THE ... CAN A (CHEAP) CHINESE KNIFE, AT 5,94 $, BE BETTER FINISHED THAT A 160 euro KNIFE ?!!! I am talking about SanRenMu 4024. Or the SanRenMu 7010, at sub-7 $ ? HOW ?!!!

Long story short, I cannot recomend this knife (I'll sell mine as soon as possible, after I'll get it back from sharpening). The wood handle versions seem to have a slit between the wood slabs and the blade (as alekseyshakaley noticed), the grind is uneven (as both me and TigFur experienced that), it does not use cryogenic treatment (as a cryo treated M390 would be in the range of 62-63 HRC, as Bohler recomends : http://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/media/M390DE.pdf ).

This knife was supposed to replace a Fallkniven F1 in laminated SGPS steel as a backup blade ; for anyone thinking about buying this LionSteel M4...if you still have your Fallkniven/Bark River, JUST STAY AWAY FROM IT !
 
I'm looking at mine right now and the grind from the spine all the way to the edge (including the cutting edge both sides) is perfectly symmetrical.

The walnut handle slabs on my sample are tight as a tomb.

That's a firm second post. Did you contact Lionsteel?
 
Mine in G10 was fit perfectly and ground even. Sadly, I lost it on an outing a few weeks ago after only a small amount of use, and having a mashed cat sheath built for it. (Not the sheath's fault, I drove away with it on the tailgate) I'm pretty sick about it, but haven't sent for another one as my self-imposed penance period isn't fulfilled yet, ha.
 
I am very used to buying aftermarket sheaths after having chased Busses and 'kin' knives that do not come with factory sheaths. So for the M4 I have a kydex sheath coming from Mashed Cat kydex. I think it will likely solve the issues you describe with the leather sheath, although it does add to the overall cost of the knife. It all depends at that point on 'if it is worth it to me' which it is with this M4. The kydex is going to allow a lot more carry options and one-handed operation with no strap to get cut. It's not going to look as nice as the leather though.

Does anybody know if the M4 tang is skeletonized or solid? I haven't tried to pull the scales and mine is at the sheathmaker.
Let me know how you like it, I'm very interested in a kydex option for my m4[/QUOTE]

I hate production sheath knives for this exact reason... Almost no one makes truly good sheaths, and you have to go and send your new knife off to be fitted for a new one basically right away.
 
I find the issue about asymmetrical grind perplexing since I have so many LionSteel knives without such issues. More feedback from users is necessary.

The issue with sheaths is that most manufactures seem to skimp on them unless you see a significant rise in price for a good kydex sheath.

The leather sheath on my T5B is quite adequate for light use.
 
I just ordered a LionSteel M4 in wood handle just to check out possible issues with blade grind and wood handles. I should receive it from a US dealer some time next week. Will advise. I've always wanted the LionSteel M4 in M390 and wood but this event just pushed me forward.
 
I'm catching up with this thread from a long ways back.
My grind looks perfect. Gorgeous blade. Gorgeous.
My olive wood scales (beautiful!) do gap similar to others posted here.
This is my second Lionsteel, and both knives have been a combination of beautiful execution in some respects, and mediocrity in others.

I'm undecided as to weather or not I'll try to lap the scales for a better fit. While it doesn't seem it'd be too difficult, I have great natural talent for screwing things up....

ETA: Another forum member and I talked a bit more about the M4 here (with pics!):http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/lionsteel-m4-w-cocobolo-handle-m390-steel.1476401/

Overall I have a favorable impression of the knife, given the price I paid.
 
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