New Slysz Bowie, rough lockup release...

Cru5ader

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Jul 26, 2012
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134
Got my new Slysz Bowie today. Love everything about it, but I'm very disappointed with something on it that I haven't experienced on a frame lock folder before: the lockup is very rough. The action is glassy smooth, but when I release the frame lock (which locks up at about 60%), there's a very audible grittiness over the entire pass. It doesn't stick (as I've experienced before with my Para 3), but it's fairly rough when the surfaces pass over each other. I've been breaking it in all evening and have actuated it well over a hundred times. Haven't noticed the grittiness subsiding. I cleaned the surfaces as well but that didn't seem to help. Everything else about this knife is perfect, even better than I imagined, but I didn't expect to have that kind of rough lockup release from a knife of this caliber, which is disappointing and has diminished the otherwise positive experience.

Has anyone else experienced the same with their Slysz Bowie? Any remedies? Should I sent it back? Thanks in advance for any replies.
 
Mine was like that and it was probably cycled many more times than yours because I was the second owner. It bothered me a little. I think I was more annoyed by a problem common to many framelocks and that is the lock cutout snagging on my pocket lip when inserting.
 
Same with a Sebenza 21. Used sharpie on the contact areas several times (when it disappear, reapply) , tweaked the lockbar a tiny bit to make it an earlier locker (just a TINYTINY bit!). Butter smooth now.


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Holy crap you are playing with fire messing with lockbar tension!!!
😱😱😱

Locking percentage is based on physical material and geometry. Wear primarily affects that. Not tension.

The only possible way to make it lock earlier is to physically add material. If your lock looks earlier, it's only because it's essentially not fully engaged anymore. It needs to be snug!

All those different forces have to equal zero for that bar to stay locked, and the factory knows that. Taking tension off affects those forces, which can EASILY turn your knife into a slip joint!!!

It is extremely risky and foolish to mess with a mechanical device you don't fully understand when your fingers are on the table!

Please be careful.

An excellent primer on the mechanics of liner [frame] locks can be found in Bob Terzoulas book "The Tactical Folding Knife."

If I'm being presumptuous, disregard. If not, educate yourself a little so you can tweak your knives safely.

I'm just concerned for your safety. I see this everywhere and it is alarming!
 
I have owned 9 CRK knives and all were tweaked to reduce lock bar tension, especially the Sebenza models.
Makes them much smoother to operate and eliminates lock bar sticking, all were solid lock up and did not change engagement %.
Great knives and workmanship however, I cannot stand thumb studs,,, all sold off.

I have also owned three Bob Terzoula custom folders,, he does not have a clue,,, two of the knives would fail the lock bar with very moderate pressure on the blade spine.
They were beautiful craftsmanship but scary to use and carry.
The lock bar would just slip away easily, both I did not modify or change tension at all,, new from maker.

Regards,
FK
 
Holy crap you are playing with fire messing with lockbar tension!!!
[emoji33][emoji33][emoji33]

Locking percentage is based on physical material and geometry. Wear primarily affects that. Not tension.

The only possible way to make it lock earlier is to physically add material. If your lock looks earlier, it's only because it's essentially not fully engaged anymore. It needs to be snug!

All those different forces have to equal zero for that bar to stay locked, and the factory knows that. Taking tension off affects those forces, which can EASILY turn your knife into a slip joint!!!

It is extremely risky and foolish to mess with a mechanical device you don't fully understand when your fingers are on the table!

Please be careful.

An excellent primer on the mechanics of liner [frame] locks can be found in Bob Terzoulas book "The Tactical Folding Knife."

If I'm being presumptuous, disregard. If not, educate yourself a little so you can tweak your knives safely.

I'm just concerned for your safety. I see this everywhere and it is alarming!

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate your concern. However, I was extremely careful and triple checked every step. I can assure you the knife is fully safe. It was just too snug and the titanium stuck with the steel. Maybe it was not wise from me to give such an advice, that I accept.

Kind Regards


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Only time I've ever adjusted lockbar tension was on a Viper Kyomi. I increased lock tension slightly and it's perfect now. Beforehand the lockbar was fully but barely engaging so that it took almost no force to disengage.
 
I have owned 9 CRK knives and all were tweaked to reduce lock bar tension, especially the Sebenza models.
Makes them much smoother to operate and eliminates lock bar sticking, all were solid lock up and did not change engagement %.
Great knives and workmanship however, I cannot stand thumb studs,,, all sold off.

I have also owned three Bob Terzoula custom folders,, he does not have a clue,,, two of the knives would fail the lock bar with very moderate pressure on the blade spine.
They were beautiful craftsmanship but scary to use and carry.
The lock bar would just slip away easily, both I did not modify or change tension at all,, new from maker.

Regards,
FK
I was referencing Bob's information, not his folders. That information was, and still is, industry standard. To say he doesn't have a clue is bold.

As far as his folders, lemons happen. And, unless you got those knives directly from Bob, did it occur to you that those failures could likely be the rusult of a previous owner doing exactly what we are discussing???

Bob warns about too little tension in his book, so I'm going to just go out in a limb and assume he knows how to make a knife stay open. And BTW, Bob isn't the only source on this. Just the most well known. Yet they other sources outline the exact same principles. Physics are physics.

Remember, Bob is using Michael Walker's specifications. So are Spyderco, Emerson, Kai, etc. Yet each of those companies has put out knives that have failed. Because lemons.

Whatever execution problems ended up in your finished products have 10 hundred thousand billion potential causes. Bob being clueless is not one of them.

As for the Sebenzas. I never said loosening a lockbar WILL cause failure. I said it CAN. As long as the tension is "enough force, " you can loosen a lockbar to your heart's content and it will still safely work. Go one milligram past "not enough force" and the lock will slide right off the ramp, no matter how perfectly it is designed and implemented.

My point is that almost everyone out there tweaking their liner and frame locks has no clue what is going on. The most common misunderstanding I see is that lockup percentage is a direct result of lockbar tension. It isn't.

Fixing lock slip by adding tension is another really stupid one. But I digress.

It is completely possible to work on these yourself IIIIFFFFFF you understand what is going on. Just cuz some guy on the Internet didn't lose his fingers doesn't mean he did it right and you should copy him!!

All I'm saying is be careful, and know thy enemy.

Thx.
 
I purchased the three knives directly from Terzoula as customs.

None were adjusted in any manner,,, it was not lock bar tension that was the problem,,, it was angle of engagement being too steep and would not hold.

On my last knife,,,, I also requested a disc instead of thumb stud for blade opening,,, well he shipped with stud and ignored my request, both on the phone and in writing.
At that time he was offering both.
All three were sold off with disappointment in his lack of understanding lock construction,,, or in too much of a hurry for gain in sales.
In later years, he may have discussed and understood the problem and published a book or articles as expert knife maker.

IMHO the most important factor is lock engagement with the knife cut out angle ramp,,, too shallow and you have sticking,,, to steep and it will slide away with hazard to customer fingers.
Tension is important but secondary to engagement angle.

Sticking is also rather common with titanium on steel surfaces,,, CRK does a heating process to harden the titanium for smoother disengagement,, Spyderco adds a steel interface on the titanium locking bar on the Military and possibly on other models.

Regards,
FK
 
This thread may have veered a bit, but that's ok I guess. :) Interesting discussion to be sure.

So I decided, based on some reading and advice from others who have experienced the same or similar, to keep the Slysz Bowie and let it smoothen out. After about a week I've noticed that the intensity of the grittiness has begun to subside after actuating several hundred times. It's still present, and still slightly audible, but much less so than when it came out the box. I can feel the surface(s) starting to mate more evenly and trust that will continue with use.

Boy am I pleased with this flipper. I can't stop fidgeting with it, flipping it open and closed throughout the day. Between my Hinderer and CRK, this is my favorite. Love the thinness, simplicity, contoured scales, blade profile and overall design, smoothness of action, and the fit and finish is astounding! By all means one of the best purchases I've made in the knife realm.

Thanks for all the input, by the way! Much appreciated.
 
Cru5ader Cru5ader How's the lock up now? Still getting better?

It's still slightly audible, but after many actuations it has smoothened out. Initially it felt like maybe 600 grain sandpaper rubbing against steel, but now it feels closer to 2000. There's still a very light grit on release, when the surfaces are sliding against each other, and you can still hear it a bit if you're in a quiet enough environment, but much less so than out of the box.

I honestly only made an issue of it because I didn't expect it from a $300 knife with this level of fit and finish, especially considering I have handled a handful of less expensive and refined frame-locks that had virtually no grittiness, and because I've seen enough Slysz Bowies flipped in video reviews and read enough reviews where the users claimed it was very smooth at disengagement.

Am I disappointed? Slightly, considering this is the only issue I can identify with a folder that I otherwise consider close to perfect (it's so minor and arguably trivial in the scheme of things, but being the standalone issue kind of amplifies it). But am I ultimately disappointed with the overall experience? Does the grittiness of the lock make me regret my purchase? Big. Fat. No. I could hardly imagine a better knife at this price point and in its niche. It will be my daily carry for the foreseeable future. In fact, I'm so impressed with the collaborative work of Marcin Slysz and Spyderco that I went ahead and ordered a Techno. :cool: Looking forward to carrying them as a pair.
 
Glad to see you're happy with the knife! Yes, it has been my daily carry knife for a while and into the foreseeable future. The way I look at it, I'd rather a knife break into perfection than to come perfect and break in to a little slop :D
 
Good to hear it is breaking in. I have one of the first ones they made and it has been perfect since day one so I think you got one that slipped through QC
 
Sorry about the long time frame.

You are describing the exact annoyance I have with many of Emerson's specimens, as well as the general idea of geometry I was trying to convey.

Sorry about your horrible experiences. That doesn't sound like the Bob that wrote the book and made a reputation. Your account is miles off what he was 20 years ago. I gave him the benefit of a doubt. Sounds like he got senile/jaded/lazy/insert verb in his old age. That sucks you were let down like that! Thanks for the heads up tho!

Take care.
I purchased the three knives directly from Terzoula as customs.

None were adjusted in any manner,,, it was not lock bar tension that was the problem,,, it was angle of engagement being too steep and would not hold.

On my last knife,,,, I also requested a disc instead of thumb stud for blade opening,,, well he shipped with stud and ignored my request, both on the phone and in writing.
At that time he was offering both.
All three were sold off with disappointment in his lack of understanding lock construction,,, or in too much of a hurry for gain in sales.
In later years, he may have discussed and understood the problem and published a book or articles as expert knife maker.

IMHO the most important factor is lock engagement with the knife cut out angle ramp,,, too shallow and you have sticking,,, to steep and it will slide away with hazard to customer fingers.
Tension is important but secondary to engagement angle.

Sticking is also rather common with titanium on steel surfaces,,, CRK does a heating process to harden the titanium for smoother disengagement,, Spyderco adds a steel interface on the titanium locking bar on the Military and possibly on other models.

Regards,
FK
 
The subject knives from Terzoula were from about 20 years ago!!!!

Emerson custom from that era also had problems with blade rubbing on liner,, could not adjust to correct the problem and sold off the knife.

At that point I gave up on customs and evolved to Spyderco and Chris Reeve, excellent workmanship and solid designs.

Regards,
FK
 
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I am not sure why anyone who makes a titanium frame lock would choose not to either carbidize the face of the lockbar or add the steel insert like on the Ti Military. The insert on the Military is genious, prevents over travel of the lockbar and ensures a smooth disengagement. It also reduces the wear of the lockbar face and could be replaced if it did ever wear to the point that lock rock appears, i.e. Striders. Ive never had an issue with my Ti Militarys and lock up. The same goes for ZT and any of thier models with the insert (which I think is standard for a while now). I had an original 0550 that I had to pry with a screw driver to unlock after the very first time I opened it.
 
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