Osprey K/T Work in Progress/Preview 01/23/17 - Updated 02/08/17

[Warrior108]

I look forward to seeing you scaled down version on graph paper. I appreciate your feedback and it helps me design a better blade in the future. I think a 3/32 (K) Apache is in order then!
I can't wait to see what you have to say once you have gotten better acquainted these blades and get you others back to compare and contrast with.
Thank you for your input and feedback as always!

I would be willing to give that a shot, Jerry had mentioned something similar before. He said he was going to get a better drawing made up on graph paper for me to look at. I am curious how similar your guys thoughts are.

..

..

So here's a rough idea after playing around with a few different approaches. Figured it might help to get other's thoughts too.

I did move the lanyard hole so it is at the high point of the handle. My OCD issues kick in when the top of the lanyard hole is more narrow than the bottom of the lanyard hole.

Edit: The handle is almost the same size and you'd have to be careful scaling it down one-to-one. The back lower part of the butt might need to be rounded/flattened to ensure comfort and maybe allowing the pinky to be flat instead of "get in or get out".

Now, if you want to deliver on the TOOL part of Osprey Knife & Tool, you can incorporate a bottle opener. Totally kidding!

 

[Warrior108]

I may need to revisit that drawing again tomorrow. My primary goals were to get a smaller EDC-friendly size, use that comfortable handle and have a blade that isn't as proportionately tall.

 

[Warrior108]

Ok, here's a do-over that I'm much happier with. The version above didn't keep the Apache lines enough for my liking.

Here's what I did:
Traced out the Apache blade on graph paper to get actual size - Blade A
Traced out the Warthog blade on graph paper to get actual size - Blade B
Scaled Blade A down to keep height/length proportion to end up with a blade length between 3 1/4" to 3 1/2" - Blade C
Squashed Blade C with regard to height only and did not change the length - Blade D

Traced out the Apache handle on graph paper to get actual size - not shown (sorry)
Scaled down the Apache handle to keep height/length proportion to end up with the handle on the lower right
Combined the scaled down Apache blade and handle to get an Apache scaled down in true proportion - Knife 1
Scaled down each part of Knife 1 with regard to height only, plus some additional handle adjustments - Knife 2
Combined the Warthog blade with the scaled down Apache handle (from lower right, not Knife 2) - Knife 3
note: the Warthog blade might look a bit wonky and that's probably because I did't copy the guard over and just continued its straightened belly line.

Overall, my preference would be Knife 2 where most of the Apache lines are retained. I like the pitch and belly on Knife 2 more than Knife 3 (Warthog blade). Just for simple EDC purposes, this seems like it would retain a lot of use given a knife with OAL 7.5" and blade length close to 3.5".


If this turns into something tangible, please don't call it Papoose (like a baby Apache)


Each square is 1/2"

 

[Comprehensivist]

Thanks Jerry for the cool sketches and explanations of your thought process. I agree with you that Blade shape #2 is the best looking and most practical one in a cross-functional role.

I want acknowledge that you did a great job of proportionately shrinking the current Apache design in your sketches. I like the blade portion, but not the handle portion. I am going to offer a different viewpoint on the handle design. This is due to a personal preference I have for more open and maneuverable shapes on the bottom part of the handle. The strong forward tilt from the back corner of the top of the handle to the back corner of the bottom of the handle combined with the taller "m" shape of the bottom of the handle have kept me from pursuing an Apache so far because I feel that it limits grip options. Shrink those handle characteristics to a smaller scale and I am even less interested. Smaller knives tend to pronounce the effect of certain features, which can be good or bad. In this case, I am not on board for a smaller scaled copy of the existing design.

Sorry Jerry & Chris, that is just an honest assessment of my preferences (which are probably in the minority.). I call it as I see it, so please carry on with what suits the majority. I like the idea of an EDC sized Apache in general. If it ends up having an open feeling and maneuverable handle, I am in. If not, that is why not.

Phil

 

[Warrior108]

Thanks Jerry for the cool sketches and explanations of your thought process. I agree with you that Blade shape #2 is the best looking and most practical one in a cross-functional role.

I want acknowledge that you did a great job of proportionately shrinking the current Apache design in your sketches. I like the blade portion, but not the handle portion. I am going to offer a different viewpoint on the handle design. This is due to a personal preference I have for more open and maneuverable shapes on the bottom part of the handle. The strong forward tilt from the back corner of the top of the handle to the back corner of the bottom of the handle combined with the taller "m" shape of the bottom of the handle have kept me from pursuing an Apache so far because I feel that it limits grip options. Shrink those handle characteristics to a smaller scale and I am even less interested. Smaller knives tend to pronounce the effect of certain features, which can be good or bad. I this case, I am not on board for a smaller scaled copy of the existing design.

Sorry Jerry & Chris, that is just an honest assessment of my preferences (which are probably in the minority.). I call it as I see it, so please carry on with what suits the majority. I like the idea of an EDC sized Apache in general. If it ends up having an open feeling and maneuverable handle, I am in. If not, that is why not.

Phil

Hey Phil,

Thanks .. and I'm right there with you on the lower back of the handle. When resizing and comparing, I didn't want to shorten the handle any more than what is on the Warthog (just for a general minimum length). The Apache handle itself is very comfortable but the pinky finger is right on the (my) cusp and it wouldn't work for me if it was any different. In reality/practicality, that bottom back portion would probably need to be rounded off / or flattened. I figured Chris would catch and address that as the maker. I also hoped this post would spur some conversation and expected that component to be a topic. Your comments about even shrinking the front portion occurred to me as well. The flip side would be that, if you don't keep a curve there (esp with a guardless version) there's risk in slipping off the handle and onto the blade. There's got to be some compromise but I do think that a number of folks would have interest in an EDC sized Apache.

This is along the lines of my comment up in Post 21 ..
Edit: The handle is almost the same size and you'd have to be careful scaling it down one-to-one. The back lower part of the butt might need to be rounded/flattened to ensure comfort and maybe allowing the pinky to be flat instead of "get in or get out".

Most important, what were your thoughts on the bottle opener addition?


Thanks,
Jerry

 

[Comprehensivist]

Hey Jerry,

Bottle opener features are cool in my eyes. Chris just needs to warn people that the warranty is voided if they use it open Bud Light cans or bottles (yeah VANCE, I am talking to you ).

For me, the Warthog handle length is right at minimum length for comfort and control. Maybe a little too close to borderline for me. Still deciding. The upscale Razorback is a much better fit for me. I am at the stage of life where I don't want to question or second guess any of my gear choices if I can avoid it. Measure twice and cut once if you will.

Thanks again Jerry for sparking a creative discussion. Chris does an amazing job converting good ideas into tangible products. I love his knives!

Phil

 

[FeralGentleman]

Looking good Chris. The anvil is still my favorite piece of new equipment.

 

[FeralGentleman]

Now, if you want to deliver on the TOOL part of Osprey Knife & Tool, you can incorporate a bottle opener. Totally kidding!

Just needs an extended tang, though you give up those sweet tapers, and it would work and still be visually appealing on some models. It could even be ground down to a functional scraper, pry tool and work even better as an opener.

 

[varga49]

Just needs an extended tang, though you give up those sweet tapers, and it would work and still be visually appealing on some models. It could even be ground down to a functional scraper, pry tool and work even better as an opener.

Stop!!! You don't put that ugly grabby thing [and I know this is all in jest] on that beautiful blade. I've opened up a few [ hundreds actually] brown bottles by using the spine of the blade and a "close to the top of the bottle" grip with my left hand. With my blade in my right hand I wedge the spine of the blade between the cap and index finger knuckle, as a fulcrum. [emoji106]
Caveat::: the rest of the process requires the employment of finesse and could, after consuming numerous beverages result in a trip to the emergency room. yeah I know this begs a video. My film crew is on vacation [emoji6]


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[FeralGentleman]

Stop!!! You don't put that ugly grabby thing [and I know this is all in jest] on that beautiful blade. I've opened up a few [ hundreds actually] brown bottles by using the spine of the blade and a "close to the top of the bottle" grip with my left hand. With my blade in my right hand I wedge the spine of the blade between the cap and index finger knuckle, as a fulcrum. [emoji106]
Caveat::: the rest of the process requires the employment of finesse and could, after consuming numerous beverages result in a trip to the emergency room. yeah I know this begs a video. My film crew is on vacation [emoji6]


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Just buy cans. Stab then shotgun

 

[varga49]

Just buy cans. Stab then shotgun

I'll go ya one better Danny!

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[Warrior108]

Stop!!! You don't put that ugly grabby thing [and I know this is all in jest] on that beautiful blade. I've opened up a few [ hundreds actually] brown bottles by using the spine of the blade and a "close to the top of the bottle" grip with my left hand. With my blade in my right hand I wedge the spine of the blade between the cap and index finger knuckle, as a fulcrum. [emoji106]
Caveat::: the rest of the process requires the employment of finesse and could, after consuming numerous beverages result in a trip to the emergency room. yeah I know this begs a video. My film crew is on vacation [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really was joking about this and I'm not so sure it would be very safe in a social setting. Just think about you gripping the handle backwards to open a bottle in your left hand and anyone to your right or walking up to your right side is getting a knife pointed at them .. one of Chris' "holy hell scary sharp" knives nonetheless.

(said in jest) And Douglas, if you don't like the add-on, I'm sure you could always find a grinder.

 

[varga49]

I really was joking about this and I'm not so sure it would be very safe in a social setting. Just think about you gripping the handle backwards to open a bottle in your left hand and anyone to your right or walking up to your right side is getting a knife pointed at them .. one of Chris' "holy hell scary sharp" knives nonetheless.

(said in jest) And Douglas, if you don't like the add-on, I'm sure you could always find a grinder.

Porter-Cable ready here [emoji12]


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[Osprey Knife & Tool]

So here's a rough idea after playing around with a few different approaches. Figured it might help to get other's thoughts too.

I did move the lanyard hole so it is at the high point of the handle. My OCD issues kick in when the top of the lanyard hole is more narrow than the bottom of the lanyard hole.

Edit: The handle is almost the same size and you'd have to be careful scaling it down one-to-one. The back lower part of the butt might need to be rounded/flattened to ensure comfort and maybe allowing the pinky to be flat instead of "get in or get out".

Now, if you want to deliver on the TOOL part of Osprey Knife & Tool, you can incorporate a bottle opener. Totally kidding!

Jerry, Thank you for taking the time out to draw these out for me it is very helpful in understanding what your are talking about.
I will have to draw this out soon myself and tweak it a bit. It is pretty close to what I would make if I were to draw it myself. I will have to play around with a few ways to address the pinky placement. I might end up redesigning the whole butt to accommodate a more open feel.

I do have plans for a couple of bottle openers in the future some hand forged and then a more complicated idea that would require casting a mold.
But, the humor was not lost on me, however I can say I will probably never incorporate a bottle opener on one of my blades

Ok, here's a do-over that I'm much happier with. The version above didn't keep the Apache lines enough for my liking.

Here's what I did:
Traced out the Apache blade on graph paper to get actual size - Blade A
Traced out the Warthog blade on graph paper to get actual size - Blade B
Scaled Blade A down to keep height/length proportion to end up with a blade length between 3 1/4" to 3 1/2" - Blade C
Squashed Blade C with regard to height only and did not change the length - Blade D

Traced out the Apache handle on graph paper to get actual size - not shown (sorry)
Scaled down the Apache handle to keep height/length proportion to end up with the handle on the lower right
Combined the scaled down Apache blade and handle to get an Apache scaled down in true proportion - Knife 1
Scaled down each part of Knife 1 with regard to height only, plus some additional handle adjustments - Knife 2
Combined the Warthog blade with the scaled down Apache handle (from lower right, not Knife 2) - Knife 3
note: the Warthog blade might look a bit wonky and that's probably because I didn't copy the guard over and just continued its straightened belly line.

Overall, my preference would be Knife 2 where most of the Apache lines are retained. I like the pitch and belly on Knife 2 more than Knife 3 (Warthog blade). Just for simple EDC purposes, this seems like it would retain a lot of use given a knife with OAL 7.5" and blade length close to 3.5".


If this turns into something tangible, please don't call it Papoose (like a baby Apache)


Each square is 1/2"

LOL, I won't call it a Papoose, I like what you did here and agree with the preference for sketch #2, I will have to print these off and mull over them. Thank you again for providing such detailed information. I will keep you and everyone else posted on the evolution.

 

[Osprey Knife & Tool]

Thanks Jerry for the cool sketches and explanations of your thought process. I agree with you that Blade shape #2 is the best looking and most practical one in a cross-functional role.

I want acknowledge that you did a great job of proportionately shrinking the current Apache design in your sketches. I like the blade portion, but not the handle portion. I am going to offer a different viewpoint on the handle design. This is due to a personal preference I have for more open and maneuverable shapes on the bottom part of the handle. The strong forward tilt from the back corner of the top of the handle to the back corner of the bottom of the handle combined with the taller "m" shape of the bottom of the handle have kept me from pursuing an Apache so far because I feel that it limits grip options. Shrink those handle characteristics to a smaller scale and I am even less interested. Smaller knives tend to pronounce the effect of certain features, which can be good or bad. In this case, I am not on board for a smaller scaled copy of the existing design.

Sorry Jerry & Chris, that is just an honest assessment of my preferences (which are probably in the minority.). I call it as I see it, so please carry on with what suits the majority. I like the idea of an EDC sized Apache in general. If it ends up having an open feeling and maneuverable handle, I am in. If not, that is why not.

Phil

Phil, no need to apologize, as you already know I respect your opinion and input on these matters. I also like that you are willing to jump in there and help create a dialogue that helps conversations and ideas flow. I like the fact that you and Jerry as well as other people are discussing my knives in the open. I feel this only helps enrich my knowledge of my customer base preferences as well as help facilitate an open platform to develop and discuss ideas on a community level.

I plan to address the open versus closed feel on the handle. I am not sure exactly how yet I would need to work out a few Ideas in my head and in my hand before committing to a change. I do have a conceptual idea of a knife similar in blade shape to the Apache and Warthog with a completely open handle.

Hey Phil,

Thanks .. and I'm right there with you on the lower back of the handle. When resizing and comparing, I didn't want to shorten the handle any more than what is on the Warthog (just for a general minimum length). The Apache handle itself is very comfortable but the pinky finger is right on the (my) cusp and it wouldn't work for me if it was any different. In reality/practicality, that bottom back portion would probably need to be rounded off / or flattened. I figured Chris would catch and address that as the maker. I also hoped this post would spur some conversation and expected that component to be a topic. Your comments about even shrinking the front portion occurred to me as well. The flip side would be that, if you don't keep a curve there (esp with a guardless version) there's risk in slipping off the handle and onto the blade. There's got to be some compromise but I do think that a number of folks would have interest in an EDC sized Apache.

This is along the lines of my comment up in Post 21 ..
Edit: The handle is almost the same size and you'd have to be careful scaling it down one-to-one. The back lower part of the butt might need to be rounded/flattened to ensure comfort and maybe allowing the pinky to be flat instead of "get in or get out".

Most important, what were your thoughts on the bottle opener addition?


Thanks,
Jerry

I love seeing the dialogue, I hope you guys continue to bounce ideas off of me and others!

Hey Jerry,

Bottle opener features are cool in my eyes. Chris just needs to warn people that the warranty is voided if they use it open Bud Light cans or bottles (yeah VANCE, I am talking to you ).

For me, the Warthog handle length is right at minimum length for comfort and control. Maybe a little too close to borderline for me. Still deciding. The upscale Razorback is a much better fit for me. I am at the stage of life where I don't want to question or second guess any of my gear choices if I can avoid it. Measure twice and cut once if you will.

Thanks again Jerry for sparking a creative discussion. Chris does an amazing job converting good ideas into tangible products. I love his knives!

Phil

Phil,
I don't think there will be a bottle opener incorporated onto an Osprey K/T knife anytime soon, a dedicated bottle opener though yes.

Looking good Chris. The anvil is still my favorite piece of new equipment.

Mine too, sometimes I just stare at it, LOL

Just buy cans. Stab then shotgun

I use to do this all the time!!

I'll go ya one better Danny!

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Nice Growler!! These are my favorite vessels to keep beer in!

I really was joking about this and I'm not so sure it would be very safe in a social setting. Just think about you gripping the handle backwards to open a bottle in your left hand and anyone to your right or walking up to your right side is getting a knife pointed at them .. one of Chris' "holy hell scary sharp" knives nonetheless.

(said in jest) And Douglas, if you don't like the add-on, I'm sure you could always find a grinder.

You guys crack me up, I love seeing you guys rib each other, but on a serious note some of you may not remember one of my holy hell scary sharp knives sent me to the E.R. about a year ago and I received 5 staples and 3 internal sutures in my knee. And I wasn't even intoxicated and just happen to drop the knife, they will cut you to the bone so please be careful and enjoy!!

 

[Osprey Knife & Tool]

Hope everyone had a great weekend! I appreciate everyone who has commented so far and shared pictures of their knives from the last batch.
Last week I started prepping for the next 2 batches I am working on. One is a batch of 8 I am completing first for Fiddleback Outpost, I plan on having these ready the beginning of next week.

Not to far behind that in the process is another is a batch of 14 knives ready to be textured and heat treated. I will probably break this batch down and move forward on about 1/3 of them.

I went ahead and built around 30 handles this weekend in anticipation for the Fiddleback Outpost Batch and the 14 I have currently in the works.
I made extra to have a selection, and to give myself a head start.

Monday I glued up the knives for Fiddleback Outpost and I will begin shaping them this afternoon, I plan on Heat treating the next batch of knives this weekend, hopefully in the new oven.

I will keep you guys posted on the next sales thread but as this point we are still a few weeks out.





This is what I started with this Friday when I started building handles. I like to lay out all my materials and stare at it, put things side by side and stare at it some more. Sometimes it's pretty easy and goes quickly, other times it can be a long drawn out process. I believe this is because I refuse to just slap random materials together just for the sake of it. Bolsters are probably the ones that are the handles I go back and forth over the most with. The whole process is very hands on and visual for me.

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After hours of choosing handle combinations, prepping and laying out I go ahead and execute the plan, I usually like to do this in the same day which can make for a long day depending on how many handles I want to make.
have learned not to rush through the planning and prepping, it helps the rest of the process go really smooth and I feel it helps improve my overall quality and consistency.

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Here are the Fiddleback Outpost knives I glued up yesterday. I will shape these this afternoon, hand file them tomorrow and finish the handles off later this week. I plan on working this weekend to finish this batch up for an early next week delivery. If you see anything you like go give Robert a ring. He loves talking to you guys and he has all of the specs on the knives he is getting.

I will be keeping you guys up to date on the progress with pictures through this preview thread

All of these are 3/32 CPM154 Tapered Tang except for the Apache it is 1/8'' and the Handle is Honduran Rosewood Burl.


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Questions and comments welcome!

 

[FeralGentleman]

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I'm loving these glue-ups, especially the middle/right section. I have a ton of colored burlap handled knives, but these subdued tones really are a favorite of mine. Excited to see what you put them on.

Personally I've had my fill of bolstered knives and gravitate to more simpler handles (for the most part) nowadays... But that Koa sandwiched between carbon fiber is going to be a stunner.

 

[madcap_magician]

I really love the translucent G10 scales with neon liners and black bolsters. That's a favorite combo... although the ivory G10 instead of black is also pretty fabulous.

 

[Odaon]

Looking great Chris! Can't wait to see the finished products.

 

[Osprey Knife & Tool]

I'm loving these glue-ups, especially the middle/right section. I have a ton of colored burlap handled knives, but these subdued tones really are a favorite of mine. Excited to see what you put them on.

Personally I've had my fill of bolstered knives and gravitate to more simpler handles (for the most part) nowadays... But that Koa sandwiched between carbon fiber is going to be a stunner.

Thanks Danny, I have been making a lot more subdued handles lately, I always love Koa though, it's one of those woods I never really fall out of love with.

I really love the translucent G10 scales with neon liners and black bolsters. That's a favorite combo... although the ivory G10 instead of black is also pretty fabulous.

Thank you, I like making them an do so often!

Looking great Chris! Can't wait to see the finished products.

Thanks Odaon!