paper sharpening wheels - when your time is important to you

A few weeks ago a knife collector asked me if i could sharpen the false edge on a Gerber Applegate Fairbairn folder.
On this knife the blade is completely shrouded by the handle when closed, so there is no risk of injury while carrying it.
The owner also wanted the new bevels to be a bit shiny.

This older YouTube clip by Nutnfancy showcases this mod:


This was the knife before sharpening:











And the result.
Ground the new bevels with a Rubber Wheel coated with 230 grit diamond powder, then refined all bevels with a Paper Wheel coated with 15 micron diamond compound, and finally removed the tiny burr remnants with the Tormek leather wheel & some 1 micron diamond compound.
The edges measure 35 degrees inclusive and are treetopping sharp.







 
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Have sharpened on stones my whole life. Lurked on BF for years, just joined. Read this whole thread bought the grizzly 8" wheels 40 bucks the HF 6" buffer 39 bucks. Within 10 minutes was sharpening knives to razor sharpness and nice shiny finishes. ( not quite like kwackster's but pretty nice) Was not hard at all. All my knives shave and each knife took less than 5 minutes. Bk2. Rat3. Spyderco tenacious. Kabar. Benchmade auto. Etc etc. I used a protractor to get the angles and after awhile didn't need it anymore. I can get a good 20 degree each side razor sharp edge. I Use the buffer backwards at 11 o'clock position. Can see the burr form easily with a light on it. Like ohallum I use a lot of wax on grinding wheel since the buffer is 3400 rpm. Slows things down nicely. I have had no problem with slotted wheel at 3400. You gotta be focused and not distracted. Also must flick up blade as tip reaches halfway into wheel. Have not had any problem rounding any tips. Again focus. I like the space the long shaft 6" buffer gives you but I still Buzzed my right index knuckle working a big blade. Will NOT do that again...painful. Can't believe how easy it is. Ain't got time for stones when the wheels put a good fast razor sharp edge. I must have sharpened 20 knives the first night. Got to be crazy not to try it. Thanks to all who gave all that great advice. This thread shortened the learning curve dramatically. I am busy and I own a lot of knives that I USE. I ain't gonna get rid of my Arkansas stones but they are gonna get dusty.
 
Kwackster,

i have a question for you. i was reading a few pages back in this thread. you said you glued the 220 grit diamond to a rubber wheel. you also said you intend to put the diamond on a regular paper wheel. question: when you use the 220 grit diamond like this, same as you would for a paper wheel, do you put wax on the surface of the 220 grit diamond? the regular paper wheel gets the wax rubbed into the surface, as you know, and was just wondering if the diamond gets the same wax treatment on your diamond wheel? i am attempting to replicate your efforts with the diamond on a plain paper wheel and would appreciate any guidance you can share in this matter.

thanks
pat
 
Yes, i do indeed put wax on the Rubber Wheel glued with 230 grit diamond powder, so exactly the same as i do on a standard Paper Wheel glued with SiC grit.
 
The factory edge of this Spyderco PM2 in S110V steel was barely shaving armhair on skinlevel, and according to my Tormek WM200 the edge angle was near 35 degrees inclusive.
The old apex was removed by cutting several times straight into a silicon carbide stone, and then i used 4 different Paper Wheels coated with diamond compounds (15, 6, 3, and 1 micron) to create & refine the new edge.
Normally i don't take high carbide steel types this far, but in this case i wanted to see how the S110V steel would do.

The new & ever so slightly convex edge measures a hair below 30 degrees inclusive, and can easily whittle a normal chest hair towards the point along the entire edge.
Thinner ones will sever immediately upon touching.
My cheap camera is not really able to show full details, but at least it gives some impression.







 
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^^^ Whoa, that is awesome work Kwackster... :eek::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I can't even come close to that level of precision with my paper wheel setup; my hands just aren't steady enough.
 
A Belgian member of the Dutch forum who's also into sharpening sent me a USB-camera as a gift, and although i still have lots to learn about what it can do i managed to take a couple of pics of the current edge on the PM2 in S110V steel:

 
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kwackster: Where do you buy your wheels? I looked back, but didn't see it. Do you have pictures of your whole setup? Sounds pretty impressive. Also what USB camera is that... seems to work well?
 
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The Paper Wheels i use come from here: http://www.sharpeningwheels.com/products.html

Both my Paper Wheels and Rubber Wheels get mounted on a Creusen slow-speed bench grinder (visible in pic nr 2 on the right)
The Tormek is in the back, and the various Wheels are kept on top of paint cans on a shelf (pic nr 3)
This is my workspace:






This is the USB-camera i have:

20x_200x_Video_Capture_USB_Digital_Microscope.jpg
 
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kwackster said:
The Paper Wheels i use come from here: http://www.sharpeningwheels.com/products.html

Both my Paper Wheels and Rubber Wheels get mounted on a Creusen slow-speed bench grinder (visible in pic nr 2 on the right)
The Tormek is in the back, and the various Wheels are kept on top of paint cans on a shelf (pic nr 3)
This is my workspace:





This is the USB-camera i have:

Click to expand...

Awesome looking shop. Where did the rubber wheels come from?
 
kwackster,

I see your edges are not very convexed - I think just right... is it because you're using diamond grit wheels? When I sharpen, I get very convexed edges. I am thinking, perhaps I don't put enough pressure on my silicon carbide wheel? I believe I tried both more and less pressure but the edge almost always come out very convex. It's sharp but I'm not sure if it's a good thing to be so convex.

Also, I'd appreciate any tips on avoid "bumping" on the wheel. I try to provide constant pressure, but I think my pass is either too fast or too slow, not sure if I need to go slower or even faster. I have a 1750 rpm grinder.
 
Before i start sharpening i first measure the existing edge angle on the knife all along the edge with my Tormek WM200, and decide if i will keep that angle or change it a bit.
This depends on the type of steel, the intended use, and of course the customers wishes.

Then i color the edge bevels black with a permanent marker, after which i cut a few times straight but lightly into a hard silicon carbide stone to remove the old and possibly weakened apex.
From experience i've learned where to place the knife on the Wheel surface to get the edge angle i want, and when starting to sharpen i picture an imaginary line straight across the Wheel surface and then try to keep the edge there as much as possible while doing passes.
The more i'm able to hold the edge on that line during passes the lower the amount of convexity will be and also the better my results in general.

Now there will always be some convexity since my hands are not jigs and the Wheels have a minute amount of "give" in their surfaces compared to a solid stone grinding Wheel.
A factory gritted Paper Wheel has a little more "give" than my own regritted Paper Wheel due to the 3-step method i use, which involves 3 layers of wood glue instead of just 1, which stiffens up the surface a bit.
My Paper Wheels coated with a mixture of diamond paste & oil have just a bit more "give" than a factory gritted Paper Wheel, and my Rubber Wheels have noticeably more "give".

The very convexed edges you're experiencing could be the result of not keeping that imaginary line across the Wheel surface during passes, or too much wax on the Wheel which keeps the sic grit from cutting well so you have a tendency of exerting more pressure to overcome that (which is counterproductive in my view) or a combination of both.

Try removing some of the wax with a not too stiff steel wire brush, and then use an old junk knife with a thin blade as a tester to see if the edge heats up and/or sparks start to fly, if not remove some more wax otherwise add a bit again.
The trick is to find the sweet spot in the amount of wax on the Wheel in conjunction with the speed & preciseness of your sharpening passes, up to a point where there are no sparks or edge heating while at the same time the SiC grit continues to cut well.

Also use that thin junk knife to cut a few cardboard boxes and some wood to see if you notice any edge damage or not, as since it's thin there is little room for it to act as a heat sink thereby showing edge damage almost immediately, whereas a thicker blade wouldn't.

What do you mean by "bumping" ?
 
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Now that you mention it, it all makes sense now! I suddenly realized that on some passes I'm not following the straight line, and I really need to get that laser going to identify the right angle across both wheels so that there is a match between grit and paper.

The "bumping" is probably from uneven pressure due to the speed of the grit wheel, where I can't keep it down consistently. You run a 1425 rpm model and I have 1750 rpm, which may account for the occasional inconsistency if the steel is too hard (m390) and I press down too hard. Sorry I don't have a picture for this to show any more.
 
kwackster said:
The factory edge of this Spyderco PM2 in S110V steel was barely shaving armhair on skinlevel, and according to my Tormek WM200 the edge angle was near 35 degrees inclusive.
The old apex was removed by cutting several times straight into a silicon carbide stone, and then i used 4 different Paper Wheels coated with diamond compounds (15, 6, 3, and 1 micron) to create & refine the new edge.
Normally i don't take high carbide steel types this far, but in this case i wanted to see how the S110V steel would do.

The new & ever so slightly convex edge measures a hair below 30 degrees inclusive, and can easily whittle a normal chest hair towards the point along the entire edge.
Thinner ones will sever immediately upon touching.
My cheap camera is not really able to show full details, but at least it gives some impression.







Click to expand...
How well does that fine edge holds up to edc use?
 
kwackster said:
A Belgian member of the Dutch forum who's also into sharpening sent me a USB-camera as a gift, and although i still have lots to learn about what it can do i managed to take a couple of pics of the current edge on the PM2 in S110V steel:

Click to expand...

Sorry, cant' comprehend; mind blown....

;):thumbup::D

Nice work kwackster; very nice.
 
Been trying to call Razor Sharp and the phone number seem to not be working, does anyone know if they are still open for business?
 
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