Pattern Welded Blades

It's hard work to make the pattern welded steel. A press makes it much less labour intensive, but that's expensive to set up.
 
Expense, if you don't make your own it is very expensive to buy, it is also expensive to make and hard for makers to be able to recoup the cost of PWS in the knives they make. If you are not a known maker it is hard to break even.
 
I think the word is labor intensive [ $$ ]. I think the best for the mix is a popular 1084/15n20. Easy to forge ,easy to HT, a practical blade.
 
Actually, I think the use of pattern welded steel ( AKA, Damascus) is on the rise. The knife supply companies, (TKS, Jantz, Alpha, Midwest, etc.) can now purchase lower cost pre-made bars from overseas suppliers and places like Alabama damascus. This makes it more cost effective for the amature knifemaker who can't make it him/herself. The much larger crowd of new makers who have forges and power hammers/presses also have increased the number of folks making their own. The availability of good info from places like Bladeforums and the other knife forums, as well as You-Tube make the learning curve much faster. Places like New Jersey Steel Baron even offer the bars pre-cut and ready to stack.

Damascus is also available in pre-made blade blanks from many suppliers, ebay, and woodworking sites ( woodcraft, woodworking Heaven, Dictum, etc.) This leads to many first knives in damascus.

Yes, it costs more.
Yes, it is harder to make.
But,
It is prettier.
It isn't that expensive in the long run.
 
Material expense whether ya made your own or bought some. Certainly not a performance issue. Good dammy, heatreated well, can run. I carried the prototype of this little guy as an EDC for aobut the last 4 years. Besides being a knife maker I'm a cattle rancher. My blades get used hard whether in the shop or on the ranch. Alabama Damascus, ht by Peters @60rc, 5.25 oal with 2" blade. Like they say on TV..."It'll cut".

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how do you know the damascus from Pakistan is poor material? Have you tried it?

Do you even know what Paki means? Interestingly enough, the only time I've ever been called a Paki was when I lived in Toronto.
 
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Is pattern welding not the same as what we call Damascus these days? Is there something I am missing?
 
While I am sure it is probably possible to source some decent steel from Pakistan; the product coming out of the country has an extremely poor reputation.

Local knife makers in that area who want to make decent blades apparently try to source Mercedes Benz leaf springs from truck suspensions.
 
We are drifting folks.

Suffice to say that most Pakistan/India damascus is poor. But that doesn't mean all low price damascus is from there or of poor quality. Alabama damascus is very low price, and hardens fine.
 
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I'm not one to get butt hurt so easily. However the term paki is a racially offensive word, there is no getting around that.
My father was born in Pakistan. I'm Indian and brown. Even I would not say that word to my friends from Pakistan.
 
Even I would not say that word to my friends from Pakistan.
The pathetic fact is that the guy who posted it probably would.

If we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's just ignorant, then he merely looks ignorant. That's the best he can hope for now.
 
how do you know the damascus from Pakistan is poor material? Have you tried it?

Do you even know what Paki means? Interestingly enough, the only time I've ever been called a Paki was when I lived in Toronto.
It's not a racial slight, it's me not typing out the whole word.

You don't know anything about me or my heritage.
I don't know anything about you or your heritage.
Moreover, I don't give a damn.

Whether you like it or not my statement is accurate.
If you can't directly trace the certifications of the steel you can't trust it.
That's doubly true for low cost imports.
If the material quality bore a market price, they would charge it.
 
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All imports? Really?

I think your emotions are now affecting your reading comprehension.


I didn't say "All imports"
I said "

Whether you like it or not my statement is accurate.
If you can't directly trace the certifications of the steel you can't trust it.
That's doubly true for low cost imports.
If the material quality bore a market price, they would charge it.


Low cost imports.

The Hitachi steels coming from Japan are good stuff.
I think the steel Aldo has made is coming frmo Germany. That's good stuff too.
Both imported, both examples of fine quality steel.
Both traceable as to content and origin.
Not low cost though.
 
Let's end it now folks. Drop it or I will close the thread. Use PM or email if you want to continue the argument.

The statement was poorly worded and too broad, and the epithet used offensive to Pakistani people. Any statement that is too broad is likely to be challenged.
 
Expense, if you don't make your own it is very expensive to buy, it is also expensive to make and hard for makers to be able to recoup the cost of PWS in the knives they make. If you are not a known maker it is hard to break even.
True. In the early to mid 1970's, I recall that a damascus blade from the few guys who were forging the stuff carried a minimum of a $10 per blade inch premium over and above the regular cost of the knife. Think about what you can get stuff like Alabama Damascus,which IMO, is not great, but not bad, per square inch over 40 years later. If I am using 1084 and 15N20, my steel cost to make a square inch of .250 thick steel is below $1. Factoring in propane, abrasives, etc, it is still not much more than $2. Labor is the BIG cost, especially because I only have a 16 ton press and not a power hammer or rolling mill. Assuming people would buy the stuff, what could I get? Alabama Damascus random pattern can be had for the equivalent of about $4 a square inch for that .250 stock. So if we do the math, that says that today, Alabama Damascus cost anywhere from say 40 to 60% of what the upcharge was for simple random pattern damascus made from high and low carbon steel the 1970's.
 
I look at it as a materials cost compared to the sale price.
I can make a drop point hunter in 1095 for around $40 in materials. It will sell for $200.
I can make the same knife in damascus for $80-100 and get $300 to $400 for it. The damascus is far easier to finish because it doesn't need a high grit sanding and polish.

In high end kitchen knives, damasteel is a real winner. Yes, the price gives people a heart attack (I just ordered four full bars for $2000), but it can make a $300 knife into a $750 knife for a high end buyer.
 
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