PayPal Fees

[KELAMA]

As far as I'm concerned, the seller always sets the terms of the sale, period. It's their property to sell. However, buyers always have the choice whether to accept those terms, or not.[/QUOTE]

^ And there you have it, Rob!

Flat Rate fees of the USPS have to do with the size of the box trumping the weight.

Hence the saying "If it fits, it ships...".

^^^ That's what he said!

 

[palonej]

I'd love to know how the gasoline companies get away with doing it then John.
Here in NJ gas is one price for cash and about a dime more per gallon if paid by CC.
What a crock.
Joe

It is different.

If the seller is using PayPal they have specifically agreed to NOT charge any additional fees to cover their cost of using the service. By asking the buyer to pay the fees owed by the seller they are telling you that they are willing to cheat and steal.

Companies that use a credit card service bureau to deal with their credit card transactions are specifically forbidden to charge more for using a credit card, it's in their service agreement.

The fact that some online as well as mail order and brick and mortar businesses still add charges that they've agreed not to doesn't make their actions right, it simply identifies those companies as being run by dishonest people.

In addition to the agreements , there are legal injunctions that forbid companies from advertising one price and then increasing it when a customer tries to pay with a credit card. It's a form of bait and switch advertising and it's not just a "dick move" it's illegal.

 

[hhmoore]

At one time, I think that was not a universal law - I want to say it was a state by state thing. I don't know of that is still the case; but I'm going to guess that it is...it just seems unlikely that gas stations across New Jersey could escape scrutiny for so long if it was not legal there.

As far as Crossdraw's comment, building the fees into the price is not an issue - it is expected - as long as the seller isn't specifying that PayPal fees have been added, or offering lower prices for other payment methods. There is no need to publicly itemize what goes into the posted price - I could care less if a seller is charging $200 for the knife, $7 shipping, $3.50 for a new roll of tape, $30 for a bottle of tequila, $8 for a pack of condoms, and adding in $15 to cover fees and lunch from the sub shop next to the post office...I care whether I'm willing to pay the $263.50 posted as the price. But if a seller says the price is net to him, that the buyer has to add __% for PayPal, or he wants it sent F&F, I'm going to consider him a ****** and not buy from him.

The seller might get to set the terms for his sale; but why should it be considered acceptable when those terms are in direct conflict with terms already agreed upon (in other words, the PayPal User Agreement)?

There is a reason that fee is charged (by PayPal to the seller - and that is because it is the seller to whom they are providing the service. Without that service, many sellers would not be able to accept credit card payments, and would lose sales accordingly. The sales that were not lost would take longer, as buyers would have to mail payment (factor in time for getting to the bank - funds for money order, or time for a personal check to clear). Until that payment is secured, the seller waits... and wonders if it is coming. There's something to be said for instant gratification - it's a convenience for a buyer; almost a necessity for a seller.

 

[KELAMA]

I could care less if a seller is charging $200 for the knife, $7 shipping, $3.50 for a new roll of tape, $30 for a bottle of tequila, $8 for a pack of condoms, and adding in $15 to cover fees and lunch from the sub shop next to the post office...I care whether I'm willing to pay the $263.50 posted as the price.

^ That's a 50% markup!

 

[bigolegator]

I'd love to know how the gasoline companies get away with doing it then John.
Here in NJ gas is one price for cash and about a dime more per gallon if paid by CC.
What a crock.
Joe

I see that down here in the South too...it ranges from .5 - .10 a gallon diff cash price...thought that was pretty standard practice.

 

[Sonnydaze]

I would laugh at someone asking 5 or 6% extra. You need to realize that shipping a knife with $300 of insurance will cost you ten bucks. It's still easier, however, planning that into your price and just asking for Goods and Services.

 

[JohnWE]

I'd love to know how the gasoline companies get away with doing it then John.
Here in NJ gas is one price for cash and about a dime more per gallon if paid by CC.
What a crock.
Joe

If you read the signs carefully they're probably offering a discount for paying cash. It's a fine line I fully admit but it fulfills the rules of the credit card issuers agreement.

 

[GIZMOMAN]

If it states NET TO ME I keep moving right along
ALL and I mean all of my sales posts for years
have been and always will be
"""SHIPPED TO YOUR DOOR PRICE"""

Its different strokes of course.. But it has been a HOT button topic in here for years
The knife that is for sale (price) Demand will always delegate if a person will pay or
wont pay the fees...

Its the nature of the beast..

 

[KELAMA]

The knife that is for sale (price) Demand will always delegate if a person will pay or
wont pay the fees...

Its the nature of the beast..

^ Truth!

^^ I'm not sure exactly why, Keith, but this thread/people who pass their fee's onto BF buyers, kind of reminds me of this song that we would wake up & listen to every morning, back when I was going to my Seabee Builder A school in Gulfport, Mississippi.

 

[GIZMOMAN]

Now NAZARETH brings back fond memories in the 80s in HS at the beach doing what our Mothers thought we werent DOING..

 

[Slayer2003]

After reading through this thread and the other PayPal thread, it seems that simply ignoring posts asking for inflated PP fees, listings asking for the use of f&f instead of g&s for sometimes a decently lower price, or the whole "NET to me" BS isn't solving anything. Why would you buy from someone that can't do basic math, asks for more than the actual surcharge offered by a payment service, or even violates that services ToS asking you to pay for goods and/or services without protection from fraud/loss/theft? It's asinine.

The simple solution in my eyes it to just start reporting people to PayPal. The harder solution is for the mods to get involved and no longer allow Friends & Family, or "NET to me" to be allowed in a listing. NONE of the other forums I'm on tolerate this crap, and none of them should. All it does is bring up problems when something does happen to a sale. I've been B/S/T'ing on forums of many different hobbies for almost 15 years (oldest I'm still active on join is 11/03...made myself feel old, ugh.) and this kind of behavior usually comes with high consequences, usually the removal of ones access to the selling forum sections. If peoples accounts start getting de-listed from PayPal, or their accounts on the forum start being limited, maybe then folks will start paying attention.

These changes WILL cause an uproar, mainly in the folks that rely on the loopholes listed in these threads and posts that are frowned upon by apparently so many on this very forum. As I've seen in the past (and it always happens...) they will threaten to go elsewhere, but this is the largest knife forum I've come across so far, are they really willing to risk losing the exposure? If such a minor change makes them leave so easily, how loyal were they really to this forum? To the community. A threat that I'm sure will be made is the loss of forums subscriptions. See previous statements. And then realize that more people will buy on here knowing they aren't being over charged, scammed, or just paying for someones laziness.

I'm new here. My opinion automatically doesn't carry weight and I get that. Change doesn't happen overnight, especially with something that's been allowed to continue for so long. However the change has to start somewhere. There has to be an actual cause to produce an effect. Ignoring it will not make it go away. Whether the mods change to rules to no longer allow using Friends & Family for transactions and make it so sellers HAVE to include fees in their asking prices, or folks start reporting the sellers who are taking advantage of a payment method meant for something else in order to gain more profit/do less work/remove ALL BUYER PROTECTION FROM THE TRANSACTION, it has to start somewhere.

 

[GIZMOMAN]

After reading through this thread and the other PayPal thread, it seems that simply ignoring posts asking for inflated PP fees, listings asking for the use of f&f instead of g&s for sometimes a decently lower price, or the whole "NET to me" BS isn't solving anything. Why would you buy from someone that can't do basic math, asks for more than the actual surcharge offered by a payment service, or even violates that services ToS asking you to pay for goods and/or services without protection from fraud/loss/theft? It's asinine.

The simple solution in my eyes it to just start reporting people to PayPal. The harder solution is for the mods to get involved and no longer allow Friends & Family, or "NET to me" to be allowed in a listing. NONE of the other forums I'm on tolerate this crap, and none of them should. All it does is bring up problems when something does happen to a sale. I've been B/S/T'ing on forums of many different hobbies for almost 15 years (oldest I'm still active on join is 11/03...made myself feel old, ugh.) and this kind of behavior usually comes with high consequences, usually the removal of ones access to the selling forum sections. If peoples accounts start getting de-listed from PayPal, or their accounts on the forum start being limited, maybe then folks will start paying attention.

These changes WILL cause an uproar, mainly in the folks that rely on the loopholes listed in these threads and posts that are frowned upon by apparently so many on this very forum. As I've seen in the past (and it always happens...) they will threaten to go elsewhere, but this is the largest knife forum I've come across so far, are they really willing to risk losing the exposure? If such a minor change makes them leave so easily, how loyal were they really to this forum? To the community. A threat that I'm sure will be made is the loss of forums subscriptions. See previous statements. And then realize that more people will buy on here knowing they aren't being over charged, scammed, or just paying for someones laziness.

I'm new here. My opinion automatically doesn't carry weight and I get that. Change doesn't happen overnight, especially with something that's been allowed to continue for so long. However the change has to start somewhere. There has to be an actual cause to produce an effect. Ignoring it will not make it go away. Whether the mods change to rules to no longer allow using Friends & Family for transactions and make it so sellers HAVE to include fees in their asking prices, or folks start reporting the sellers who are taking advantage of a payment method meant for something else in order to gain more profit/do less work/remove ALL BUYER PROTECTION FROM THE TRANSACTION, it has to start somewhere.

Welcome to BF----SO VERY WELL STATED--
I ""NEVER AND WILL NEVER Send F&F to ANYONE""
(I may have done it with close buddies I have dealt with in the past)
Thats on me..BUT its a trust issue and new people are that "NEW"
Until one earns my trust...They get paid G&S or I move along and let others
take the risk.

This is and always will be a HOT button topic..well because People cant do the math and yes..
Laziness plays a HUGE roll..Although if a BUYER pays that way..Thats on them..BUT rest assured
we will here the whining and complaining in here they were fleeced..
It happens..Perhaps not in here as much but it does..
Reputations and Trust are EARNED not payed with a NO fee payment so you can
pocket more $$$
Integrity--Character--Or Lack there of speaks in volumes to me to STEER CLEAR..

Bravo....With your very well thought out and poignant comment..
WELCOME...

 

[brooksknives]

Just saw one in the knifemaker for sale fixed asking 5% what a joke not to mention a tos violation.

 

[hhmoore]

While I don't support the practice, the knife maker I see doing that regularly is not US based... so the fee is 4.5% for international + the transaction fee (that's the extra $0.3 tracked on to US transactions - I'm not sure if it's the same for international).