Queen Customer Service

[bikerector]

Erdelyi, a lot of what you're saying rings true. I've been in QC for a number of years and what always dumbfounds me is when a production manager (a bad one, IMO) or the owner of the company basically considers QC a "necessary evil" and basically just uses it for hitting a minimum standard. My current company works that way and it drives me nuts, to the point I will be moving on soon. What is always overlooked is that QC prevents loss, and usually a lot of it. My company recently turned down a QC software that would have helped reduced waste and eventually increased profits but it appeared to cost too much on the front end so they said "nope." I find it ironic because the software is an extension of a software system the production management use for increasing efficiency so it would seamlessly integrate with what we already have.

Tying this all back to Queen, I hope they get their act together as I have an unhealthy fascination with D2 and they're the only traditional company with it. I've been stalking their products for a while and finally have a medium stockman that I'm quite fond of and would like more but I keep reading situations like this and I get nervous. A modern knife company with known QC at least has stellar customer service to mitigate the risk of getting a questionable product occasionally. I know you can't make every piece to spec but if you know you have more out of spec than what is industry standard then you really need to step it up elsewhere.

This is the only reason the company I work for does okay with our hit or miss QC. If we get a returned product we generally compensate the purchaser the product, and then some, usually 3-5 times the value of the product (given, the products usually aren't massively expensive). We throw out sample products and gift cards like candy at a parade if you call and complain, even if the complaint is questionable. We would rather have a happy shady customer than a mad one.

 

[NewBlades16]

The thing about CS is that even when it's bad they can still come back. All they have to do is be proactive and address any issues or at the very least acknowledge any complaints and deal with them in a timely manner. I had high hopes when the Daniels family took the reigns I thought it would be good for Queen considering the pedigree/family background.

Here's an article about the takeover. Queen inside story I'd like to believe that Ryan Daniels will see this and step up like they said, they need a knife guy in charge. Let's hope this gets better because we all know the alternative, Queen and S&M names get sold to Taylor Brand or one of the other offshore manufacturers who bought up all the old knife names for a song and had them made for pennies overseas.

We lost Schrade and Canal Street Cutlery, Camillus also went belly up, we always say we wished we woulda did something. Well maybe gettin' Queens management on the same page as us. Which is to want a quality knife. I get production issues and equipment can cause issues with F&F but don't blow off the core end user. Don't alienate the one group of people with the power to take them to the next level.

If you ignore the problems, eventually the only solution becomes removing you self from the problem and then you don't care 'cause it ain't your problem anymore. For Ryan to announce that there was a knife guy at the helm now even has me startin' to question their true motives when I hear about customers bein' treated like the OP.

As I mentioned earlier, comin' from a manufacturin' background I understand how entire runs of a knife/pattern can get made outta spec or with major defects. What I don't understand is how once a problem is identified nothin' gets done and worse, the same poorly made product continues bein' made after a problem has been flagged. The knife consumer is not an idiot. There may be folks new to the hobby, (I hesitate usin' that term "hobby" because it's more than that to me) new folks who don't know what makes a quality knife, much less a quality built traditional slip joint where there's so many moving parts dependent on each other to work in unison to provide a safe, quality tool capable of separating softer materials efficiently and with a minimum of maintenance.

They have the equipment they just need a QC process in place, it's so much easier and cheaper to catch a problem before 1,000 pieces go by with the same defect and now they all have to come back and be repaired. Depending on the problem it most likely is cheaper to start fresh and make sure it starts and stays in spec. Periodic inspection of the product will let them know how close to spec they are and make any adjustments to the machinery or process necessary.

When I was workin' in the semiconductor we had QC meetings twice a week and production meetings twice a day. If one of our wet benches was outta spec just 1 cassette of etched wafers could mean millions of $ lost so it was way cheaper to look for and catch any problems even within a single wafer in a cassette of 50. I'd like to think the Daniels family wants Queen/S&M to prosper and go into the next 50 years makin' heirloom quality knives/tools but they have to listen to the consumer, the end user, me, you and everyone who has a choice to buy a Queen/S&M knife or maybe a Case or GEC. If they don't address the F&F issues and they don't deal with the CS attitude and get down to fixin' problems I fear the writing's on the wall and it'll only be a matter of time. Walmart bankrupt Schrade in a year, I doubt it would take long for Queen to be interviewin' auctioneers and dividing up the remaining carcass of the company and it's hard assets.

Ryan!, hear the call my friend, your people are callin' out to you, don't ignore them or they'll certain;y be puttin' money into the pockets of the companies who care and listen.

Sorry for the long rant, I really only meant to express my feelings and those of you who know me know that it never goes well if I get beyond 20 words or more so I'll just quit right here.

For the TL;DR version...

The people of Queen Cutlery, your customer are having issues with F&F and the CS department, if you take care of the issues and address the concerns of your end user you'll have customers waitin' for the knives to come off the bench. You won't be able to keep enough inventory on hand to keep your customers happy .

Plain and simple. Ryan was a complete jerk over the phone. Who says that this is only a part time job, he works a full time job and that he does not usually take calls back? He was argumentative with me and did not see it and tried to put it back on me saying I was mad about the knives. I was not made about the knives. All he was doing was debating me.
Shortly after, I got a call from Julie at the factory. You know what she told me? She told that her and her husband, who use to work there under Ontario, came back 6 months ago (He came back. I don't know if this is her second time around) to work there and Ken asked him to come back because of quality control before.
Julie was awesome and if I did buy another knife from them it would be because of her, not the Daniels family. She did not even know I spoke to Ryan. She said he just forwards all the emails to her. She went on to say that she only met Ryan once since she started there 6 months ago! The freaking guy stays in Ohio! You guys can defend Ryan, Ken, and Queen all you want, but the bottom line is that they make junk and they do not even stand behind the junk they make. No wonder foreign made products are eating some USA made products alive!! It is examples just like this? Just because Queen is small and has a tradition? Give me a break.
Bye the way. I cc'd the email I made to Ryan to his father as well, and I emailed Ken about the experience I had with Ryan. Whether I am right or wrong, do you think Ken had enough integrity to email or call me back to support a potentially brand new customer? NOPE, NADA, NUNCA!
GEC is going to crush them and they already are!
Also, I did not mention that the stag barlow I returned had so much gap between the stag, bolster and frame, that I could have wedged a dime in there. Just junk! For 100 bucks?? Not me.
For the record, I bought them from TSA knives and I will say that Greg was good about it and took the return. I did buy a Trestle pine Portage which I kept and it has quite good f&f. And I know, it is a Queen made knife. He must be on their tale when they make them. In fact, Ryan even told me to go to him when I purchase. I told him that is where I bought the knives. He just said, "Sorry you do not like our knives). That dude just misses the boat completely. As I said in Ken's email, if Ryan does this part time, fine, but take his name down off the website as the VP of Sales!!!
Queen is Done, especially when I can go across town and buy a GEC of the same price range and often times cheaper, and get out of this world quality control and I would bet my membership fee here that if I did have a problem, they would be on it yesterday!
I rant just like you do, and people who know me will tell you that I will give a company great business and loyalty when I am treated right. But, if I am treated like dirt, I do not lie down!! Hear me Daniels family!!!!
Lastly, I cannot wait to see the Lion Steel Barlow that is coming out from CK. I have a reserve for all of them, and mark my words. I bet the fit and finish will be out of this world. That is just an example of how foreign manufacturing will eat companies like Queen alive and never look back!
I am from upstate NY. I live not far from Camilus, and Utica, and Canal Street. I am in between there and Bradford and Titusville. I know the tradition here. I have lived here all my life.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

I'm not disagreein' or defendin' Ryan or the Daniels family, I'm disappointed that he/they take the concerns of their customers so lightly. When a manufacturer/maker feels entitled and no longer feels the need to accommodate or even placate their customers the writing's on the wall. What I am sayin' is good or bad I'm not willin' to just write them off and spend my money elsewhere. That'll just lead to another iconic knife manufacturer closing their doors forever or sellin' their name/trademark to someone else who cares even less about the future of the company.

 

[NewBlades16]

I'm not disagreein' or defendin' Ryan or the Daniels family, I'm disappointed that he/they take the concerns of their customers so lightly. When a manufacturer/maker feels entitled and no longer feels the need to accommodate or even placate their customers the writing's on the wall. What I am sayin' is good or bad I'm not willin' to just write them off and spend my money elsewhere. That'll just lead to another iconic knife manufacturer closing their doors forever or sellin' their name/trademark to someone else who cares even less about the future of the company.

Yeah in a way I agree with you, especially since this is not your personal experience. I understand your point of view.
What is it though? Is it equipment? Is it personnel? Is it a combination? Why can GEC get it "right" so much more often than them. I kind of do not put Case in the same category. I do not know why. I put Case below them and want to put Queen in the same category as GEC, but they give me no reason to. I bought these knives as an alternative to GEC. I am not a band wagoner. Ha ha. Everybody loves GEC and I wanted to go a different route and and have the quality that all GEC dudes swear by. That is why I went the Queen route. I knew their fit and finish issues but I heard a few good things too, and I figured that if I had a problem like what I heard about, they would back me. I even watched Kens video on integrity, and honesty, and quality, and family, what what it means to him. A customer should be family, especially when he says that you do not have to be blood related to be family. And how he goes on to say that if you take care of your knife, that when they bury you, they can take your Queen out of your pocket and pass it down. I mean, wow, that guy sold me. So I bought almost 300 bucks in Queen knives on my first Queen purchase. But, at least I learned sometime. Everyone has different experiences and I cannot fault someone for their personal experiences. Thanks

 

[HappyDaddy]

Who the Hell throws the good customer service rep under the bus by repeating things she said on a public forum?

 

[NewBlades16]

Who the Hell throws the good customer service rep under the bus by repeating things she said on a public forum?

I'm not throwing her under the bus. Read what I wrote. I was stating facts and I said she made the difference in how I was treated. There was no confidentiality in what she said. I told her openly about Ryan and she simply responded that she could not address his behavior because she only met him once as he does not live in Titusville. If throwing under the bus is a concern there then Ryan should be there to get a handle on what the heck is going on there. What else Papa?

 

[jbmonkey]

i stopped buying queens when i realized id have to spend far too much time on every knife putting a proper bevel on it. butterknife like edge is an under exaggeration. have they fixed that common issue yet in current production?

 

[NewBlades16]

i stopped buying queens when i realized id have to spend far too much time on every knife putting a proper bevel on it. butterknife like edge is an under exaggeration. have they fixed that common issue yet in current production?

Ha ha. My Trestle Portage is not a butter knife, but the bevel is pretty rough though. The edge symmetry needed fixing. Pretty thin at the hilt and show side much thinner than non show side, but nothing that the Edge Pro Apex could not fix. When did you stop purchasing Queen knives?

 

[jbmonkey]

Ha ha. My Trestle Portage is not a butter knife, but the bevel is pretty rough though. The edge symmetry needed fixing. Pretty thin at the hilt and show side much thinner than non show side, but nothing that the Edge Pro Apex could not fix. When did you stop purchasing Queen knives?

more than a couple years ago. good to hear they got a little better on edges. thanks for the feedback.

 

[Bartleby]

I'm not disagreein' or defendin' Ryan or the Daniels family, I'm disappointed that he/they take the concerns of their customers so lightly. When a manufacturer/maker feels entitled and no longer feels the need to accommodate or even placate their customers the writing's on the wall. What I am sayin' is good or bad I'm not willin' to just write them off and spend my money elsewhere. That'll just lead to another iconic knife manufacturer closing their doors forever or sellin' their name/trademark to someone else who cares even less about the future of the company.

Well stated. A lot of what is being said is very concerning, quite similar to what happened at Camillus at the end. All that is being said is quite justified. It sounds like they are losing perspective, not realizing that when it comes to a product whose value is based on the usage, the product itself is the loudest advertisement and potential doorway (opened or locked based on quality) to further business. Word of mouth is much more powerful now than ever before. I hope that the powers that be at Queen make it right, I for one would sure like to know how they resolve it.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

Keepin' an open dialog is the only viable way to be productive. They, (Queen) needs to be aware of how the end users feel and are bein' treated, If they don't know the how and where by now, it'e either a case of ostrich syndrome or cuttin' their losses and sellin' off the assets. I'd hate to think either alternative was a valid one, I could accept ignorance or inexperience over the other two.

I do know this though, when the dialog becomes a monologue and one side's not listenin' it's pretty much over but as long as there's even a tiny bit of dialog there's hope. Bein' mean and nasty on either side accomplishes nothin' except to burn the last lines of communication open. I just wanna say that I'm not pointin' fingers and I'm not accusin' anyone of bein' nasty or mean. I am sayin' that this sits in the hands of the Daniels and the people they hired, it's the people put in place by Ken and Ryan to make management understand the current state of Queen et-al's job to make them understand and come up with a way to placate and ease the concerns of the current clientele while tippin' those still on the fence about Queen over to Queen's side. All this while fixin' the problem.

Quite frankly what appears to be an insurmountable task at face value but one that can be overcome to the benefit of Queen and the consumer. Once the dialog is closed, it's all over, there is no other outcome other than the one preceded by some of the best in the business, (Schrade, CSC, Camillus). It's so much harder to rebuild than repair, this is a lesson that some in the cutlery industry needs to still learn.

I think I've said all I have to say on the subject, we'll see what happens and in the meantime I guess I'll see how real the friendship with Ryan is although I have a feeling it's gonna be a fairly one-sided friendship. I hope not.

 

[NewBlades16]

Keepin' an open dialog is the only viable way to be productive. They, (Queen) needs to be aware of how the end users feel and are bein' treated, If they don't know the how and where by now, it'e either a case of ostrich syndrome or cuttin' their losses and sellin' off the assets. I'd hate to think either alternative was a valid one, I could accept ignorance or inexperience over the other two.

I do know this though, when the dialog becomes a monologue and one side's not listenin' it's pretty much over but as long as there's even a tiny bit of dialog there's hope. Bein' mean and nasty on either side accomplishes nothin' except to burn the last lines of communication open. I just wanna say that I'm not pointin' fingers and I'm not accusin' anyone of bein' nasty or mean. I am sayin' that this sits in the hands of the Daniels and the people they hired, it's the people put in place by Ken and Ryan to make management understand the current state of Queen et-al's job to make them understand and come up with a way to placate and ease the concerns of the current clientele while tippin' those still on the fence about Queen over to Queen's side. All this while fixin' the problem.

Quite frankly what appears to be an insurmountable task at face value but one that can be overcome to the benefit of Queen and the consumer. Once the dialog is closed, it's all over, there is no other outcome other than the one preceded by some of the best in the business, (Schrade, CSC, Camillus). It's so much harder to rebuild than repair, this is a lesson that some in the cutlery industry needs to still learn.

I think I've said all I have to say on the subject, we'll see what happens and in the meantime I guess I'll see how real the friendship with Ryan is although I have a feeling it's gonna be a fairly one-sided friendship. I hope not.

Good points but I will say this. It falls on the Daniels family themselves. The "Buck" stops with them, not the employees. If they do not live and breath and bleed Queen then they should not be owners of Queen. They can find the right employees all day long but if they are not 100% Queen then what can they expect from employees? Lead by example. These are facts. This has nothing to do about meanness. It it about keeping American Capitalism alive. This is how Queen stays alive. If that means the Daniels family moving to Titusville to get that company top notch then that is what needs to be done. If Queen is not that high of a priority to them and other business interests take precedent then it is what it is. They do not have to answer to us. That is what this country is all about. But, I hope they realize what can and eventually will happen to Queen as a result. I think we are already in the early stages of witnessing this. And your friendship with Ryan should be just that. As a friend, I hope you support him and stick by him. That is what a true friend is and I am quite sure he appreciates your friendship.

 

[NewBlades16]

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I don't know many companies with VPs that take complaints from customers. But I don't give excuses for the way it was handled according to your statement. What you describe is not good business. Queen struggling is more than a two decade old story but I understand your frustration. And I understand it is all new to you.

As I understand the rules, we are supposed to talk about the knives in this forum and buying and customer service in Good Bad Ugly. As you say, this is about customer service.

I know of a prominent knife company that you can call the owner on his cell and if you cannot reach him, his wife will track you down.

 

[brownshoe]

Long story short, you didn't like your knife. You returned it, but for some reason you still wanted to complain. In most companies, you wouldn't have made it to an owner or upper management and if you did, you'd be sent to the person who handles complaints. It's a testament to Queen's openness that you could even talk to people in charge.

Your personal attacks and your quoting the Service Rep's remarks that could get her in trouble, make me think there is another side to the story.

 

[HappyDaddy]

I'm not throwing her under the bus. Read what I wrote. I was stating facts and I said she made the difference in how I was treated. There was no confidentiality in what she said. I told her openly about Ryan and she simply responded that she could not address his behavior because she only met him once as he does not live in Titusville. If throwing under the bus is a concern there then Ryan should be there to get a handle on what the heck is going on there. What else Papa?

I read what you wrote, which is why I commented as I did. The "confidentiality" is a given, for anyone with a modicum of social sense.

 

[NewBlades16]

Long story short, you didn't like your knife. You returned it, but for some reason you still wanted to complain. In most companies, you wouldn't have made it to an owner or upper management and if you did, you'd be sent to the person who handles complaints. It's a testament to Queen's openness that you could even talk to people in charge.

Your personal attacks and your quoting the Service Rep's remarks that could get her in trouble, make me think there is another side to the story.

I am not attacking anyone. I am not sure what world you are living in, but any worthy company will always have upper management available for customer service and it is ironic how it seems you are quite the personal attacker. It was beyond not liking the knives. It was a quality issue. You are right, I wanted to complain. They should know about the quality issue. Man I hope you do not run a company!

 

[NewBlades16]

I read what you wrote, which is why I commented as I did. The "confidentiality" is a given, for anyone with a modicum of social sense.

There was no confidentiality because there is nothing bad or wrong about what she said. Social sense about what?? We are talking about customer to business dialogue. If you are worried about the minum of social injustice, you are a pretty sensitive person and the business corporate sector would make you feel quite socially inept.

 

[jmh33]

Seem to me that the poor QC issue has been long running with the new owners??? John

 

[NewBlades16]

Long story short, you didn't like your knife. You returned it, but for some reason you still wanted to complain. In most companies, you wouldn't have made it to an owner or upper management and if you did, you'd be sent to the person who handles complaints. It's a testament to Queen's openness that you could even talk to people in charge.

Your personal attacks and your quoting the Service Rep's remarks that could get her in trouble, make me think there is another side to the story.

Who am I attacking? Also, it was not a "knife," they were "knives." And, you are correct, I did call to complain and any worthy company's upper management would want to hear complainst. If you call a big box company then you will not get the president of the company, but I bet if you wrote a letter to the company you would receive correspondence from upper management for sure. That is why these companies are successful Queen is not. Especially a small company like Queen; Talking to the owner would not be out of the ordinary. Man, dude, you are not accustomed to the corporate sector, are you? Also, do not forget, I was a first time customer! "A testament to Queen's openness." Ha ha . Keep buying their products and drink the cool- aide.

 

[NewBlades16]

Seem to me that the poor QC issue has been long running with the new owners??? John

From what I have heard but I can only go with this personal experience. I will give them that the Trestle Pine Portage in 154CM that I kept is quite nice. I am going to order a Boker Tree Brand Barlow today in Bog Oak to compare the quality. I have never owned a Boker. And the cost is half of Queen's.