slipjoint spring tension

The other thing to keep in mind is that if it starts as a 5, it will be a 3 in a year of normal use.
I beg to disagree, in part with your statement.
What you say is possible, and it is often the case since people tend to overtemper their springs under the illusion that this would allow more flexibility.
In reality overtempering causes actual plastic bending of the spring and so loosing preload over time.
Stronger spring (harder), with the correct geometry (thin) will work whithin their elastic range for a lifetime without loosing any preload.

OOOpppps....i see only now that Javan went through this subject before me ;)

Javan, if i got it right it looks like i have came to the same geometry of yours regarding the tang. Optimizing the ease of opening by moving the back lower corner of the tang more toward the point of the blade...getting a bit less than 90° (blade/handle) at half stop.
 
Last edited:
Good discussion - and I forgot to mention to HSC///: good looking slipjoint - are those brass bolsters?

silicon bronze with a copper liner - and thank you
the silicon bronze is shiny when new and polished and then dulls to a warm patina look
 
Great thread! I'm only on my 10th or so slip joint (@tim.merkl on instagram) and I fully agree with the complexity statements mentioned. Also, after reading this thread, I really want to try a thinner, lighter spring with more preload. So many variables to play around with and so many patterns out there to be tried, if only there was enough shop time!
 
great discussion, thanks all

relative to my original question, I think what I got out of this discussion is that the opportunity exists for me to get alot more refined in the design and execution of my slipjoint action.
I'm also thinking that in general, a "4" is just right for the type of slipjoint I want to make.
 
Great thread! I'm only on my 10th or so slip joint (@tim.merkl on instagram) and I fully agree with the complexity statements mentioned. Also, after reading this thread, I really want to try a thinner, lighter spring with more preload. So many variables to play around with and so many patterns out there to be tried, if only there was enough shop time!

That's the way to go!
Remember to take into account the flex portion will want to dive in between the liner in an arch shape, that would get your blade's tip to rise in opened position, steering a bit form the geometry you have in unloaded mode....plan for it in advance so you can fine tune in the end
 
back on this concern...
has anyone ever measured the spring tension in lbs/force?
any idea what range a slipjoint backspring is in, in terms of what could be measured on some force gauge?
javand javand S stezann @esnyx
 
back on this concern...
has anyone ever measured the spring tension in lbs/force?
any idea what range a slipjoint backspring is in, in terms of what could be measured on some force gauge?
javand javand S stezann @esnyx


I'm sure someone has, I haven't, for me, the number is arbitrary, I simply have an expectation of the baseline; in terms of how I want it to "feel". Two different makers could probably have exactly the same pull weight as measured by some gauge, but feel completely different, in terms of the complexities, and even the perceived force, especially when you factor in tang engagement, and pre-load vs thickness. A thicker spring with less pre-load will feel one way, at X weigh to get past the first cam, vs a heavy pre-load with a thinner spring, and a more rear-ward front spring-pin.

Personally, I like a progressive pull, that's snappy and runs itself right past the apex of the first cam, but with zero chance of breaking a nail, or even fear of it, when going from closed to half, but the half to open is heavier in this config.
 
There is no way to measure it in ounces/grams because all blades are not the exact same length and all tangs aren't the same shape or size. A 2" blade will measure different than a 4" blade because of leverage. The arbitrary hard to easy nomenclature is subjective to the user/builder, but at least it is somewhat universal.
 
Stacy, you're right about the issue of leverage. However, I think there's a perceived amount of pull that's important and (somewhat) measurable.

The closest I've seen to actually measuring this perceived pull force is what Mike Latham - @knifeswapper - describes here: https://www.collectorknives.net/posts/knife-pull-rating-goes-somewhat-scientific/

It appears he measures force at the nail nick & calls it out as spring pressure on his website. It's a very interesting baseline for measuring these things, and from what I can tell around 2 pounds of force at the nail nick (about a 6 pull) is just about right for me - based on the production knives I own that Mike has measured.
 
I understand the measurements are arbitrary and vary based on various factors.
What I was trying to get at is - how do I establish and execute consistency for my own patterns and spring tensions?

a few days ago, I visited my friend Tim Wright in Sedona who makes high end take-down folders. His precision is very very high and he demands consistency from his work. Tim showed me the force gauge he uses to measure the push spring on his lockbacks.

The closest I've seen to actually measuring this perceived pull force is what Mike Latham - @knifeswapper - describes here: https://www.collectorknives.net/posts/knife-pull-rating-goes-somewhat-scientific/

It appears he measures force at the nail nick & calls it out as spring pressure on his website. It's a very interesting baseline for measuring these things, and from what I can tell around 2 pounds of force at the nail nick (about a 6 pull) is just about right for me - based on the production knives I own that Mike has measured.

thank you for this Sam Dean Sam Dean
 
Last edited:
I understand the measurements are arbitrary and vary based on various factors.
What I was trying to get at is - how do to establish and execute consistency for my own patterns and spring tensions?

a few days ago, I visited my friend Tim Wright in Sedona who makes high end take-down folders. His precision is very very high and he demands consistency from his work. Tim showed me the force gauge he uses to measure the push spring on his lockbacks.



thank you for this Sam Dean Sam Dean

You'll easily develop a feel for it over time Harbeer, however, I think the idea that you need repeat-ability here; while it makes obvious sense "on paper", to be misleading, and likely counter-productive. As Stacy mentioned, unless each knife, tang, blade, nail nick position, cam radius and levarage, are all different. Even if you want the "same pull" on all your knives (which I'd contend as also, not being as good as it sounds), this will create variances, no matter how specific your testing regime. Unless you're looking to do large batches of the exact same "model", I'd highly recommend, not to fixate so much on this. Much more important, are the nuances of the action, than some arbitrary pull force. I have pretty strong opinions personally, in that regard, and it attracts a certain, pretty loyal customer base, but even among those that like those specifics, a lighter, or heavier pull is either preferred, or even necessary, depending on the above variables, and more importantly, who it's going to.

I say all that, as someone, who you well know, doesn't consider himself a "service provider", never makes customer designs, or allow specific input, and the basic extent of my "order" process, is limited to a rough guideline on style, material preference, and then I make what I want to make, if you don't like it, take a hike. Still, if someone is older with weak hands for example, I want them to enjoy the piece I make for them, and it doesn't take much other than letting them open a personal knife, to see what they might need in that regard.

No need to box yourself in, or put numbers or quantifications on what's "right" to you. If you can make it snap, walk and talk, and feel smooth as butter, without being a nail breaker, you're on. If you can't, the number isn't the issue, it's some caveat of the complexity of all these minute interactions between 3+ contact points in motion, that change in each position. Just my opinion.
 
I will add that even though I am not a big time folder maker, I find getting a smooth "walk and Talk" much more important than exactly how hard the blade pulls to open.
 
Back
Top