Stacked Leather Handles

T

Tye Possum

Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
215
Ok first off I'm asking this here because stacked leather handles are on a lot of traditional fixed blade knives so I'd assume you traditionalists would have more experience with them then the people who prefer synthetic handle materials (which seems to be the majority of people nowadays). I have a feeling that if I posted this somewhere else I'd get a lot of "just get the kraton handle" responses.

I'm looking into getting a Ka-bar Marine fighting/utility knife (I know there are better knives for the woods but I'm still going with the Ka-bar), maybe you guys consider it traditional, I don't know, but I'm more interested in your opinions on stacked leather handles in general. I've heard an awful lot of negative things about leather handles, for example: If they get wet they swell up and start deteriorating, if they get wet in the cold they'll freeze and possibly break in some way, and so on.

I'm wondering if this is a little exaggerated, after all they've been used on hunting knives, pilot survival knives and of course the Ka-bar for a very long time and I would think they must be working somewhat well for them to still be around.

So what are your experiences with stacked leather handles? How do they hold up over time and if you do something to help maintain the leather, what would that be? This knife will be used in the woods here in Canada so that means it'll come in contact with snow at some point, as well as rain of course so just bear that in mind. Any help appreciated, thanks.
 
In the 1980's I saw some WW2 era Camillus MK2's and Cattaragus 225Q's that were still being used every hunting season by their WW2 vet's owners. The handles had been cared for and were still in good shape.

When we arrived in Vietnam in 1967, our supply room handed out some Camillus MK2''s, and when I was discharged I still had it. I used that knife as my heavy duty dirty deeds knife until my older boy talked me out of it. John still has it, and it's his camping and hunting knife. He does what I used to do; about once every year or two, smear some Snow Seal all over the handle, then use the 'ol lady's blow dryer to melt the snow seal untill it gets runny and can be really rubbed into the leather. Now 44 years after I was issued this knife, it's still going strong with my son John.

Some of the men I knew growing up, used nothing but those small sheath knives by Kabar, Case, and Western, called little finn's. Stacked leather handles with a birds beak aluminum pommel. This was the salt marsh country of Maryland's Eastern shore, and water was part of life. Gear got wet on a real regular basis. Yet those old timers just waxed the leather handle and sheath, and never had a problem.

Leather handles are more durable than you think. Just take care of them with some Snow Seal now and then.

Carl.
 
in the middle, ww2 era, stacked leather handle, most likely not babied through its storied life, i bought it a couple years back and use it outdoors for cutting and light chopping, etc. been sweaty and wet... i just occasionally apply mink oil to the leather handle and sheath and i'm on my way, not exactly hard use but says alot about the toughness of a leather handle...
gene

ww2items.jpg
 
IVANKERLEY said:
in the middle, ww2 era, stacked leather handle, most likely not babied through its storied life, i bought it a couple years back and use it outdoors for cutting and light chopping, etc. been sweaty and wet... i just occasionally apply mink oil to the leather handle and sheath and i'm on my way, not exactly hard use but says alot about the toughness of a leather handle...
gene

ww2items.jpg
Click to expand...

You've got a double header there, Ivan!

Not only a nice 225Q, but the whole TL-29 kit.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Carl.
 
Here is a knife with stacked leather handles. I found it when a I was a kid hiking with my family in Wyoming, it was laying out on the ground on the side of a hill. Exposed without a sheath to the sun, rain, and Wyoming winter cold. How long had it been there, I have no idea. But the leather had dried and shrunk, and the blade was pitted and rusty.

I took the knife home, applied neetsfoot oil to the leather, repeatedly until soaked, and until the leather returned to it's original shape and size. Since then the knife has sat in my Accumulation, thirty years now. I've never done another thing to it, and yet the leather remains solid and tight.

UnkHunter.jpg


So no, I don't think you need to be overly concerned with the durability of stacked leather. :)

Here's a teaser, another leather stacked knife except I didn't find it laying on the ground:

MarblesExpert.jpg
 
jackknife said:
You've got a double header there, Ivan!

Not only a nice 225Q, but the whole TL-29 kit.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Carl.
Click to expand...

the line man pouch was a gift i received a few years back, i believe it to be an assembled set but really neat! (wrong sort of pliers)
But that catt 225Q is one of my favorite sheath knives, i only have a couple but thats the one i go for!
cheers
gene
 
The treatment to avoid is coating, or worse, soaking, in any kind of oil, like mineral, Neatsfoot, etc. softens the leather rings so much they start to fall apart.
Wax or even no treatment at all seems to work best.
roland
 
I agree with Roland. Wax works well and does not stretch/soften the leather. Also gives reasonably good protection from the elements.
 
Stacked leather does look really good and is durable. I just ordered a stacked leather puukko with carbon steel blade. I'll add pictures when I get it. Stacked leather is quite rare but still quite traditional material for puukko's too. Stacked birch bark and stacked leather handles are more expensive make than birch, curly birch or masurian birch handles usually used in traditional puukkos and are often used "higher end" puukkos, status puukko's or puukko usually worn with better clothes due their price.
 
rprocter said:
The treatment to avoid is coating, or worse, soaking, in any kind of oil, like mineral, Neatsfoot, etc. softens the leather rings so much they start to fall apart.
Wax or even no treatment at all seems to work best.
roland
Click to expand...


When I was in England a long time ago, I took the opportunity to tour the British Museum in London on several occasions. ( Can't see it all in one day!)

I had the chance to talk with one of the curators when I was looking at some leather buckets from the 1600's that were in perfect shape. I asked him what did they put on the leather to waterproof it and preserve it under those conditions. He told me that bee's wax was used, and that they still use bee's wax to preserve leather goods. Oils soften and break down the leather too much. It was after that trip that I started to use the Snow Seal on all my leather stuff, since it's mainly bee's wax.

If it was good enough for the British Museum, it's good enough for me!

Carl.
 
Thanks for the replies, very helpful! Nice pictures as well.

It seems leather isn't as bad a handle material as I've been lead to believe. I was wondering if leather was really so bad then how did those old soldiers and hunters ever manage with it, and now I know, they managed quite well! ;)

I guess it's kind of a group opinion thing, kind of like a lot of bushcrafters thinking you can't manage without a scandi grind or people thinking you need a locking folder for EDC. What they forget is that people have been using flat or hollow ground sheath knives and slipjoint pocket knives for their daily tasks for a long time and they've gotten by fine. Just like people have been using stacked leather handled knives for years with no problems long before micarta or G10 ever touched a knife handle. Of course there are some upsides to the new materials but that doesn't mean the old ones are suddenly useless. Thanks for helping me see the truth.

I think I'll try that snow seal stuff, sounds like it does the trick.

Thanks for the help, and if anyone would like to post anymore pictures of old sheath knives with stacked leather handles then I definately wouldn't have a problem with that.:D
 
Just remember that with Sno-Seal or any other similar wax, a little goes a long way. Don't overdo it.

I've used that particular product on my mountaineering boots and other leather equipment since the early 70's.

AQUASEAL is another excellent product I've had great results with.
 
Like Carl said about bee's wax. I use alot leather shoes and I have bees wax leather shoe stuff. I Use that to protect all my leather sheaths, leather shoes and leather handles.
 
Schrade even made some contoured or finger groove stacked leather handles in their 49'r series, which are nice. The only negative I have heard about leather is that it tends to be more slippery in the hand when wet than some other materials. I notice that some of the military handles have alternating bands of larger and smaller washers which might counteract the slippery nature of the beast.
 
I've used SnoSeal on leather boots and i find that it does soften the leather excessively so that there is less support and rock gouges go deeper.
pure bees wax is sold in some stores. I'd go with that over SnoSeal.
so far i'm using the "no treatment" on my stacked leather handles. i wipe of any blood, etc. as soon as feasible and if they're wet from rain/snow, i just let them dry out at room temperature. Likely these handles won't last 400 years like British Museum buckets, but they'll likely oulast me.
roland
 
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Did someone say stacked leather? :D Did I say I like Marble's knives? Well I do!
 
i like those stacked leather ones as well.

nothing wrong with leather, i know case makes some really nice ones.
 
Still use this 1950's Western combination too..

yie04.jpg


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Applying good quality mineral oil now and again on the leather handle covers will lengthen the life nearly indefinitely. :thumbup:


Anthony
 
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