Swinden key benefits?

J

jabroneeman

Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
80
Does anyone here prefer the swinden key over pivot pins? Are their any benefits to the swinden key? And why did Schrade decide to use them on some models as opposed to pivot pins? I am just getting into the older USA made Schrade knives so please excuse my lack of knowledge on the subject:eek:
 
It was used to save time manufacturing. Personally, I like the Swinden key system, but I know a lot of others hate it. My old reliable 8OT that I've carried since the '70s is still as tight as the day I got it.

 
Thank you very much! Yes, I heard that once they get some play in them that with a swinden key, you are pretty much up poop creek. Unless you know what you are doing and can fix it yourself. But I don't think it's an easy fix as tapping a pin like with pinned construction. But alas, this is all only what I've heard, no actual experience.
 
Last edited:
The first Buck 'pocket' knives were contracted thru Schrade for six years. Those knives had the Swinden bolsters. I have several and view them as very good knives. They were subject to effects of over 'use' by owners and with Bucks Lifetime free warrantee statement, repairs began to back up because of the amount of work taking the knives apart.





Here you can see the bolsters tommy pins Codger spoke of above, I blame the strength of the brass liner over the actual bolster design of this method for the back bent blades.




I have always like the design relationship of the scale rivets, blade grinds and knife bodies shape in the Schrade made Bucks. These 301s are the Swinden versions. I will state that of these type I have carried none has been abused by me and they continue to perform with excellence. The first model has the grooved bolster, then one without and finally the version with Buck on reverse of each secondary blade. These are 1966 thru 1972, made in what was to become both the Buck 301 and 303 models. The contract was changed in the early 1970 to a company with thru pin bolsters so blade work on repairs could be accomplished faster. 300Bucks
 
Last edited:
I don't have a good picture of the tommy pins, but they were pins molded into the inside of the bolsters that were inserted into the outer liners and bradded over (peened) to attach them to the right and left outer cover halves before assembly. They are different from the Swinden key pivot pins.

In this old scan, the orange marked outer liner holes for the tommy on pins, the green lines to the keyhole openings and the blue lines to the outer scale pin holes. The red line points to the liner hole for a molded in bolster peg to fit to prevent it from rotating on the tommy-on pin. The spring pin hole is pretty obvious.

5ao049.jpg
 
Last edited:
jabroneeman said:
Thank you very much! Yes, I heard that once they get some play in them that with a swinden key, you are pretty much up poop creek. Unless you know what you are doing and can fix it yourself. But I don't think it's an easy fix as tapping a pin like with pinned construction. But alas, this is all only what I've heard, no actual experience.
Click to expand...

IMO you heard right
Blade wobble is not an easy fix without taking the knife apart
That is why I prefer to handle a used knife before buying/trading

That said I have only had one with wobble so bad I could not get over it ( and yes it was purchased sight unseen)
 
Thanks to everyone who responded. I NEVER expected to get these detailed and informative answers! Very helpful and interesting!
 
yablanowitz said:
It was used to save time manufacturing. Personally, I like the Swinden key system, but I know a lot of others hate it. My old reliable 8OT that I've carried since the '70s is still as tight as the day I got it.

Click to expand...

Like yablanowitz, my Schrade 881 has been the only knife I have used since 1974. Over the years the springs have lost a very small amount of snap.
I have more then 20 new 881s in tubes, and not once have I ever considered replacing my old 881. The Swinden system is still tight on my old knife..KG.
image.php


300Bucks, if I had to ever replace my old 881; I would use one of my Schrade made Buck 301s.
Schrade did a good job when they made the 301, with the Swinden System.
 
Last edited:
WOW! This is the most informative thread on the Swinden System I have ever found.
Thanks for the illustrations 300Bucks. Great visuals. :)
 
Now if we can just get Eric to do us a video showing how they were assembled! :D
 
Codger,

I am calling the nickel circles in the brass liner on either side of the keyhole, slighty angled in placement, as your tommy pin heads.
The hollow pin the scale rivet ?.

Everyone else,
Just so no one feels bad about doing it, earlier on in my collecting experience I bought two or three Swinden/Schrade contract Bucks from only photos, either closed or positioned in photo to not show the overtravel of the clip blade on the bent pin. Handle all Schrade contract Bucks or make the seller swear a oath........ 300



One of my favorite knives is the 303 sized Schrade Buck. It just is. You know what I mean. There is stuff that just is, and this is one of the knives for me that "just is". I will be honest and admit to grinding on the toe of the sheepsfoot tang to get it down a hair but that's OK with me.
 
Last edited:
Again, Eric can correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that there is only one tommy pin, the one that is braded to attach the bolster to the liner. The other is an unbraded locator pin. ???
 
I will see what I can do for a better photo. I still have the "donor" knife parts. In the bad photo above it appears the inside hole is not peened on close examination. Now I just have to remember where I hid the body....300

PS I think I see the reflection of your avatar in the first pin head........
 
Found the parts and will take some good close-up photos for the record and include in thread. The 303 size knife that I ground down to mid-pin, I went ahead an pryed off the bolster and it required some force but the pin you are calling the anti-rotation pin popped lose. Under magnification it appears to have a lip in the liner around that hole. Will take photo of that, but the tommy pin was ground off. I have a second liner with both whole bolsters and the front pin looks peened and ground flat for certain. Will take photos for the records. I think the anti-rotation pin is tight but the front pin is the main pin. To be clear to others we are talking about the pins that hold the bolster to the liner, NOT about the blade pins. 300
 
Last edited:
Well, Here goes some more photos. I have just about beat this horse to death, but just a little more to honor the brave knives that gave their lives to our better understanding.

Here is a 303 size Schrade contract Buck, hereafter called a 303, showing the forward tommy pin with peened and ground flat head on bottom liner, the Swinden key hole for the blade pin, the empty anti-rotation pin hole and the piece of remaining bolster (on the top liner) from my photo of the slice down the middle. The piece of bolster had to be removed with some force, but see the pin formed with the bolster and notice a very slight ring in the empty hole it grabbed on to. Also notice the hollow scale rivets with rolled over edges.


Here is close-up of tommy pin hole.


Here is the Swinden hole and bolster pins showing. You can tell the tommy pin is peened and ground flat.


Here is photo of the Swinden pin on the pin blade end of a 303, it gives you more visual of how things work. Middle brass liner and spring.


That's how it was in the Buck contract knives and likely close to the Schrade models also. Probably more than you wanted to know.

300Bucks
 
Good illustrations! So as for the main advantage being in manufacturing, the two outer halves were assembled, the inner skeleton assembled, then the outers were pushed onto the keyhole pivot pins, pressed down to the tops of the slots, the spring(s) were then compressed and the center spring pin slipped through then peened/spun. Disassembly is as simple as cutting that center spring pin and pressing the two outer cover halves out of their keyhole slots.
 
Codger_64 and 300Bucks and any others...That is the most helpful thread I have read on the Swinden Key. Sure beats trying to understand the Patent Drawings. i am a long time follower of the Forums but a newbie to the used knife trade. Have sold about a hundred Schrade USA on eBay and very few did not have a little wobble. About three years ago, had a Schrade returned 'cause of the wobble. After several attempts to figure out what is going on, I got on Bladeforums and got answers. Suspect most buyers have no idea.

Thanks, gentlemen.
 
I'm not a fan of the swinden key construction, but that's only because I have a 33OT that my dad got new in '83 and never used which came with blade some real blade play. I've recently decided to give it a second chance in my pocket ( started learning about good and bad knives as a kid and put it back in the box when I discovered the blade play ) and don't actually notice the blade play during use at all.
That being said I really wish the blade play wasn't there, and if this knife used normal through pins I could tighten the blades up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top