What did you rehang today?

[jswa2]

No rudeness taken! And, excuse my ignorance, but the grain itself is straight as can be; it's the heartwood stripe that is offset at an angle - or are you taking the grain and the coloration to be one and the same?

The store I bought the handle from had a few others that size, and all were similarly colored, though the rest of the bunch also had knots or worse grain alignment, etc. It'll be another $12 once it breaks, I can live with that.

 

[Woodcraft]

Grain orientation referred to growth rings running bit to poll if you are looking at the butt of the ax handle. The argument is that that is the best for strength. There is also an argument that running at something around 12° off is best. Yours is running side to side. The runout is when you follow the growth ring running down the handle and it literally "runs out" of the handle before the end. The Heartwood in your handle does/accentuates that this is happening in your handle. You want to be able to follow as many as you can from inside the eye all the way to through the handle.
I have had Heartwood in my handles that had no issue. I still feel that is where a separation would be if it happens.
I have had handles with run out that had no issue. I still avoid it when possible.
I have had handles with that exact same grain orientation get absolutely smashed on overstrikes and still go strong. I still prefer "proper" orientation.

 

[nzedge]

No rudeness taken! And, excuse my ignorance, but the grain itself is straight as can be; it's the heartwood stripe that is offset at an angle - or are you taking the grain and the coloration to be one and the same?

The store I bought the handle from had a few others that size, and all were similarly colored, though the rest of the bunch also had knots or worse grain alignment, etc. It'll be another $12 once it breaks, I can live with that.

Ideally you want the grain orientation to be running back to front, not side to side like yours.

So if you look at the bottom of your handle, see how the growth lines in the wood run side to side, not back to front?
Ideally the grain direction should run something like as in the image below (not my image)

Couple of reasons for that. Firstly, imagine over striking or missing the target and hitting the handle below the head. If the grain runs side to side as in your image, then "layers" could easily delaminate from each other. That cant happen if the grain is the other way around.
Also, the handle will be much stiffer with the grain running front to back, as it will help is resist bending in the forward/ back direction.

woodcraft explained the grain run out thing well

 

[Square_peg]

Not to be rude, but wow, I agree with Square, that is probably the worst grain orientation on a handle that I have ever seen,

I didn't say anything about the grain orientation, only the runout. Orientation isn't as important on a straight haft as it is on a highly curved haft.
I've seen mixed heartwood/sapwood handles last for years with no problems. I've also seen them separate. I wouldn't reject a handle on that criteria alone.

 

[nzedge]

I didn't say anything about the grain orientation, only the runout. Orientation isn't as important on a straight haft as it is on a highly curved haft.
I've seen mixed heartwood/sapwood handles last for years with no problems. I've also seen them separate. I wouldn't reject a handle on that criteria alone.

Sorry that was worded poorly. I had meant that I agreed with you about the bad haft due to run out, and expanded on it saying the grain orientation also sucked. I did not mean to put words in your mouth. Sorry if it came across like that.

I should have said something along the lines of "Not to be rude, but wow, I agree with Square about that being a questionable haft. And that is probably the worst grain orientation on a handle that I have ever seen"

 

[Square_peg]

No problem. I was just clearing things up.

 

[Moonw]

It seems like a proper time to drop this: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1064146-Grain-Run-out . As simple of a concept as it sounds today, it helped me understand what people were talking about.

 

[rjdankert]

It seems like a proper time to drop this: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1064146-Grain-Run-out . . .

. . .

A picture that might be useful:

[from kayarchy site]

The bottom piece of wood has obvious runout. . .

:thumbup:
​

Bob

 

[rjdankert]

Post #2312 in this thread:

I've tried to "dissect" your handle as best as I could from the pictures. Two pictures of endgrain are overlaid on the first picture of the side view of the whole handle.

The bottom of the handle (lower left) is a view of the endgrain from picture #4, looking in the direction of the arrows.

The end grain at the top of the handle from picture #3 is shown at the lower right looking in the direction of the arrows. This image was flipped. It's meant to simulate what one would see if a slice was taken from the top and observed in the direction of the arrows.

What I see:
1. from the side view the grain appears to run straight.
2. the endgrain views show matching grain patterns on both ends.

IMHO, that is what I would call a straight grained handle. And good on you.:thumbup:
. . .

Here is another handle with the picture done in the same way. Not what I would refer to as "straight". YMMV

Bob

 

[300Six]

Here's an example of extreme runout that should never have left the factory.

 

[traditionalist]

Can't recall if I posted these already

 

[Square_peg]

Can't recall if I posted these already

What a handsome old axe and handle. Well done!

 

[traditionalist]

Rehung all of these today, they are all sitting for their oil treatment now. All hung on their old handles.

Left to right
-Collins legitimus CT pattern, pitted but a workhorse
-Warren 4lb USA military axe
- Plumb 3.5lb CT pattern, with a sheath I made out of scrap leather
-4lb plumb jersey

 

[phantomknives]

i'v been itchin for a good connie lately, i should fix my 5 pounder up. That plum, a little black paint and that's NOS worthy

 

[traditionalist]

i'v been itchin for a good connie lately, i should fix my 5 pounder up. That plum, a little black paint and that's NOS worthy

Was thinking about painting it, but any kind of use and that paint would dissappear quick.

 

[phantomknives]

i painted mine about 4 inches from the edge and it's been fine, probly'd wear away with splitting

 

[Derzelas]

I found a firefighter pick head (belt) axe made by Welland Vale. I coudn't resist and here it is. The bit is around 2 lbs (8" total length and 3.5" cutting edge) on a 26" handle (compared with my Plumb hatchet on 14" handle). I had to modify a 28" axe handle to make it work with the eye and keep the proportions of the original (unfortunately the original was cracked beyond repair). I still have to sharpen it. I just tried to see how it sharpens and is quite hard - harder than my Walters. This format is quite rare, so I will keep it just for house emergency. Or maybe not!

PS HomeHardware unmarked hickory handle rocks - if you don't mind the thinning of it.

 

[jblyttle]

I found a firefighter pick head (belt) axe made by Welland Vale. I coudn't resist and here it is. The bit is around 2 lbs (8" total length and 3.5" cutting edge) on a 26" handle (compared with my Plumb hatchet on 14" handle). I had to modify a 28" axe handle to make it work with the eye and keep the proportions of the original (unfortunately the original was cracked beyond repair). I still have to sharpen it. I just tried to see how it sharpens and is quite hard - harder than my Walters. This format is quite rare, so I will keep it just for house emergency. Or maybe not!

I love it. I have a boy's axe sized Flint Edge fire axe and it is the only one off that size that I have personally seen.

 

[jblyttle]

An all original large Plumb hatchet. I just scraped and oiled the wood, an tightened it. 3lb total weight, 18".

 

[Derzelas]

Thanks JB, very nice Plumb there !