What is sharpening a knife about? (2015 updates!)

Yes, I'm getting better at sharpening. I can cut paper with 1000# stone now. Thank you to everyone who has posted in this thread.

BO-DACIOUS
 
This helped me out a lot! Great write-up! This makes a world of difference to a beginner like me!!
 
This article was very helpful. I have had hit and miss success over the years sharpening my knives. Mostly kitchen knives but also some moderately nice pocket knives. I recently purchased a Benchmade Emissary and have a Mini-Barrage on the way. I have had two Lansky kits for many years.

But, after reading this article, I used a sharpie to mark the blade to see where the stone what hitting the edge. I found that on my Emissary, Leatherman Skeltool CX and kitchen knives the stone does not touch the edge when using the 20 degree setting. It is my understanding from reading that 40 degrees is the arguably optimal angle for an EDC. It's my assumption that 20 x 2 on the Lansky would give me the 40 degree edge I'm looking for. I spent almost 30 minutes per side with the extra course stone and never touched the edge. However, once I went to the 25 degree setting on the Lansky I was able to get a good sharp knife.

Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to just spend more time on the 20 degree and Extra Course until I grind the edge down to the point where it touches the actual edge? Should I just leave it alone and be happy with a 50 degree edge? Any input appreciated.

Cheers, Kevin
 
kmahler said:
This article was very helpful. I have had hit and miss success over the years sharpening my knives. Mostly kitchen knives but also some moderately nice pocket knives. I recently purchased a Benchmade Emissary and have a Mini-Barrage on the way. I have had two Lansky kits for many years.

But, after reading this article, I used a sharpie to mark the blade to see where the stone what hitting the edge. I found that on my Emissary, Leatherman Skeltool CX and kitchen knives the stone does not touch the edge when using the 20 degree setting. It is my understanding from reading that 40 degrees is the arguably optimal angle for an EDC. It's my assumption that 20 x 2 on the Lansky would give me the 40 degree edge I'm looking for. I spent almost 30 minutes per side with the extra course stone and never touched the edge. However, once I went to the 25 degree setting on the Lansky I was able to get a good sharp knife.

Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to just spend more time on the 20 degree and Extra Course until I grind the edge down to the point where it touches the actual edge? Should I just leave it alone and be happy with a 50 degree edge? Any input appreciated.

Cheers, Kevin
Click to expand...

You definitely understand the basics. My only input... I think on the Lansky, the degree settings are based on the edge of the clamp. So, with a knife inserted that sticks out beyond the clamp edge, the actual angle will be lower than the reading on the device. If you have a way of independently checking the angle, (digital angle gauge, protractor, etc.), you could get a better idea of what the actual sharpening angle is.

You are right, the 20 deg. setting is per side. If you're happy with how the blade performs, there's no law that says it has to be 20 deg. (Most here go even lower anyway... depending on the knife). If the 25 deg. setting works well for you, no reason to change it. (At some point, sharpen a knife lower, and see if you like it better). The work you did at 20 deg. setting will thin the blade and make it cut better anyway, in most cases, even though you finished at 25 deg. setting.

1st though, I'd check and see what angle you're actually sharpening at.
 
cbwx34 said:
You definitely understand the basics. My only input... I think on the Lansky, the degree settings are based on the edge of the clamp. So, with a knife inserted that sticks out beyond the clamp edge, the actual angle will be lower than the reading on the device. If you have a way of independently checking the angle, (digital angle gauge, protractor, etc.), you could get a better idea of what the actual sharpening angle is.
Click to expand...

That's a great point. I had considered this but, didn't realize just how much it was contributing to the angle. I haven't been able to measure it yet but eyeballing it I can tell it's a pretty significant difference as you move away from the end of the jaw.
 
I have a question. All I have now to sharpen
My knives is a smith brand dual grit combo
Synthetic abrasive stone and according to
The smith website it is used in the same
Manner as a diamond stone so now for my
Question is this stone sufficient enough to
Get my knives razor sharp? I'm going to reread
The entire thread again but are there any other
Tips or techniques I should be using? Thanks

Frank
 
Forgot to mention that on my smith
Dual grit stone it's only 100 grit and
The other side is 240 grit so will these
Grits get my knives sharp ? Thanks

Frank
 
In all honesty, it depends. With all our talk about shaving, hair popping, etc we sometimes forget that a sharp knife is a knife that does the task we are using it for in an efficient manner. That said, 240 is pretty coarse. Like lawnmower blade coarse almost. I usually take knives up to 400 or 600 grit for everyday use.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk
 
drfreemlizard said:
In all honesty, it depends. With all our talk about shaving, hair popping, etc we sometimes forget that a sharp knife is a knife that does the task we are using it for in an efficient manner. That said, 240 is pretty coarse. Like lawnmower blade coarse almost. I usually take knives up to 400 or 600 grit for everyday use.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Agreed! 600 grit (and I prefer to follow that by judicious stropping with a 1 micron diamond paste or spray as a final step) makes for a fantastic edge!
 
Update: I just got a mini-sharp folding diamond
Sharpener it's a red fine grit which I believe is
600 grit but I'm not sure on that it's made by
Camillus it was a Valentine's Day gift from my
Wife so today after about 50 or 60 passes each
On my smith stone on the 240 grit side so that
I see a new scratch pattern on the bevel and
Now I'll be using the mini folding diamond Sharpener
And see how it does and then strop my blades on a
Old leather belt and I'll report back on how everything
Went but I just found out that the wicked edge blade
Sharpening system headquarters are in the same state
As I am and about 50 mIles away so if I don't like my
Results I'll either send my knives to wicked edge by
Mail or just take a drive up there and have them
Resharpen my knives and possibly reprofile the bevels
If needed but I will be gething more home sharpening
Equipment so I can do it myself in the future and continue
To practice and get better

Frank Cervantes
 
I just read this for the first time. Really great walkthrough on sharpening. Nicely done.

About the bur.
It took me until only very recently before I really could understand why working up a bur and feeling the bur along the entire edge was so important. Years ago I acquired a sharpening jig for knives and in the last few months have begun re profiling boring dull knives I had lost interest in due the the time that would have to be spent to re profile their neglected edges. In real life I find that it can sometimes be tempting to just set the knife aside after a big job is done, instead of finishing by restoring its edge. But with use of the jig, re profiling became easy and fast enough that I could bring back these knives on my own for the first time. I can keep sharp knives in my kitchen again! It's pretty nice.
Anyway, I'm sorry I didn't read this years ago! Thanks for the write up.
 
Here's a picture of a factory edge before sharpening, under magnification. This knife has been used for several years and has never been sharpened. You can see that there are chips, nicks, and small rolls. These aren't always immediately visible to the naked eye. This edge will not draw-cut paper (never mind push-cut). In order to get an edge that will push-cut paper all along the length of the blade, you have to work the edge with a coarse stone until you have gotten past all of the problems (chips, nicks, and rolls).
ipDisr6.jpg


Here's a picture of the same edge after finishing with a coarse stone. As you can see, the sharpener has gotten past all of the problems and has brought the obtuse factory angle down quite a bit. Although only a coarse grit edge, this knife will push-cut paper easily because it is fully-apexed and burr-free. Now finishing the sharpening job is easy: since you have fixed all the problems, you need only go up in grit until you have achieved the level of refinement you need. And each progressive step of refinement will only take a small fraction of the time and effort taken with the first, coarse stone. As I wrote in my original post many years ago, 90% of the work is with the first stone.
Y4iF7e7.jpg
 
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Nice shots @Magnaminous_G. I too prefer to finish the edge at a diagonal. Though I cannot discern the orientation of your blade, I always diagonal the top of y towards the tip and the bottom of y towards the heel to improve draw cutting.
 
Thank you.... A newbie, I haven't found a burr. I think that might be because I use a push/pull or leading edge/traioling edge naturally. I've gone to ebay and looked at hundreds (well almost but at least thirty) different videos and tried to copy several stroke patterns.
I recognize that I have little skill. I don't think I hold my angles consistently (or even correctly), I get nothing like the rhythm the masters maintain on those videos, as noted I never find a burr and I don't have a good magnifying device.
I use three arkys'... soft, 800 hard, and beautiful black. They are all 10 x3 x 1. I use mineral oil for lack of the proper (I suspect) honing oil.
I have been getting great results, like the guy who sinks his first two foul shoots and thinks he knows what he's doing.
I sharpened a Hanckel Pro S, 8" chef knive. I had an exceptionally thick London broil (maybe close to two inches) the damn knive was so sharp that it had me laughing (really). I cooked up the London Broil and figured this was my test. More laughter(or at least broad smiles this time) the knife glided through, so I did a non sawing / push cut. And more gliding. So I tried thinning the cut and got to almost translucent.
I took a bunch of parsley and tried the left hand fingers curled under and used the rocking motion for Frech chef knives that I'd seen demonstrated from Jacque Pippen to Gordon Rampsey etc and the parsley cut so sharply that I realized that even my supposedly sharp knives from the past had basically been crushing, or, at least, offered nothing like what I was getting now.
I've done at least twenty more knives since then and even if the vanadium seem to take too long, they've all turned out well. I work them until they can cut 20 lb. bond and newspapers with just the push (no sawing motion) and the cut is clean, no raggedity, and smooth.
I also practice, take a ruler and a 1/4 and watch a video and try to ape the strokes the master uses so perfectly. I've tried to develop techniques for using the stones horizontally placed relative to my body as well as vertically. And Ive tried to learn a technique for very long knives that don't naturally accommodate to the size of the stone.
I have a few tentative conclusions: I'm a guy that 's been seeing in black and white, the first color looks good but there's more to the rainbow and I still don't know what "professionally sharp" means; my "sharp" won't last as long as a master's ; It's taking me too long; no matter how I practice in front of You tube, I'm stuck with my own technique that probably incorrectly applies pressure in two strokes, 1, tip of knive and right side of blade on the bottom of the stone, up the stone with trailing edge, down the stone with leading edge THEN 2., flip blade and reverse so up the stone this time with leading edge down the stone with trailing edge (is that why I'm noticing no burr?).
Blind mouse asking seeing mice for comments , recommendations.
' Cause next up is a batch of six Sabitier knives (ebay purchase) that are in rugged condition with a badly worn chef's knife that might need re-shaping and an extradorinary long (12"s or better) blade.
 
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