Why Baton a folder?

anthony cheeseboro

anthony cheeseboro

Joined
Aug 8, 1999
Messages
5,094
I know batoning a folder can demonstrate the strength of a lock, but it is so much more extreme than a real life knife use of a folder. There has to be a more practical way to demonstrate lock strength?
 
Folder locks are safety devices, not replacements for fixed blades -- and battoning even a fixed blade isn't a great idea (aside from my Blackjack Campanion in 1095). Any lock has limitations.
 
I don't know, Anthony. There's no "best way" I suppose when it comes to folders, but I can't see the need for any such "way".

People spine whack folders regularly. Ever have the need to whack the spine on a folder? I haven't. Folks will say that it approximates the stress that routinely gets applied to the spine of a folder. I myself have never needed to apply shock force to the spine of a folder. To each his own, I suppose. I've used traditionals for years, not a lock among them, and never had one fold on my digits with routine use. But darned if folks aren't sold on a knife if it can survive a good whacking. :eek:

There have been videos of folk stabbing a folder into a vertical surface and using it for a step. I've never had the need to do such with a folder, so I guess this ablility is lost on me as a consumer. But somebody out there is impressed, so they keep on climbing on them.

Batoning is right up there in my book. Never needed to, so I guess it'll never be a selling point for me. But who am I to say that this shouldn't be a bona fide demonstration of how much stress your average, every-day, off-the-shelf folder needs to handle?

There's a fine way to test lock strength in a folder. Catastrophic Lock Failures vs Units Sold would probably do it.

But good ol' math doesn't make as entertaining a video as smacking a folder with a hefty oaken club (thus hereby is not as "practical").

And so here we are.
 
Hi! Spine whacking and batoning with folders is something I don’t do. I don’t think these are suitable tests to perform in order to measure lock strength, if one would like to keep the knife in service after that :). Surely some folders can withstand low/medium/high/very high level of abuse and not breaking down in pieces immediately after these practices but I wouldn’t feel confident to use a knife abused in this way later on. Fatigue, plastic deformation, micro cracking, wear, creep, relaxation, buckling, etc. are all very real phenomena and an abused locking system is not a safe one anymore in my books. For me it would be like crashing a car to test airbags and safety cell. The safety devices might have functioned well and passed the tests, but the vehicle is not fit to use anymore :D.

Anyway, what I always do with my new working folders is to perform what I call a “stabbing and torqueing test” :). I consider these tests are connected to my own real type of use of the knives in my EDC tasks. I stab the locked blade into the different media I normally have to cut like thick cardboards, HDPE tanks, wooden pallets, composite wood, etc. and I twist the blade several times in all directions. Lock shouldn’t fail and tip shouldn’t snap. These are, for me, tests resembling reasonable foreseen use of my knives and they need to pass these before going into service and rotation. Sure for my purely gentlemen’s locking knife (like my Mcustas) or the slipjoints these are not applicable :).
 
There's no reason a person needs to baton a folder. Some people are concerned about spine whacks- so I guess it's about the easiest thing you can do to replicate one. I blame all of it on cold steel's videos. Someone looks at it and says... oh yeah? I wonder if this knife can ever do the same. Despite, the antics in my videos- I have only ever batoned once or twice before for a real reason... and then it was with a big Schrade fixed blade.
 
In my experience unreliable locks tend to expose themselves in normal use, like the lock bounce that occurs in a Kershaw Launch 2 I recently. I don't see the need for extreme testing of a knife, especially a personal user.
 
I propose that the answer is, "Only when necessary." It's never seemed necessary to me, although I gently tried it years ago with a slip joint - gently - on a small piece of straight-grained pine to create a gap for a wedge. No damage but never did it again.

As for spine wacks, never saw the need for that for me. However, motor vehicles are legitimately tested by driving them into large, solid barriers. We benefit from that testing, although it kills the test vehicles pretty thoroughly. The forces and results are scientifically measured.

I do wonder about some of the video kings who routinely destroy knives to prove ???? "Watch me destroy knives"? Don't seem to produce actual objectively measured results. Only do one sample. Hard to replicate. Seems to be along the same lines as splitting cord-wood with a fixed-blade knife using a big log as the "baton." But, then, I never understood the commercial success of "Dumb and Dumber."
 
Well I guess it's nice to know that the knife can take it should it ever be needed. It's obviously not very smart to baton with a folder if you got better tools at hand.

I like knowing my blades can take the beating from batoning if they have to, gives me confidence.
 
NorseVet said:
Well I guess it's nice to know that the knife can take it should it ever be needed. It's obviously not very smart to baton with a folder if you got better tools at hand.

I like knowing my blades can take the beating from batoning if they have to, gives me confidence.
Click to expand...

If a folder is going be brought to the breaking point, I think more would be gained by using a machine like Spyderco has that can actually measure how much force it takes to break a lock.
 
Batoning with a folder is best done not at all. (Though I hear TriAd locks are supposed to be fine to baton with) However many people don't realize that you can baton with a folder without locking the blade open, and by having the blade half way open while batoning not stressing the lock face.

The spine whack test always seemed like a way to damage the lockface with forces that I wouldn't subject to the spine of the blade to. If the spine was to recieve a force it would most likely not be in a hard and sudden like a whack.
 
Only if you like to break folding knives . If an absolute emergency , unlock the knife , and use the blade and handle as a separate unit.
To baton a folder is like throwing a knife at someone who already has a weapon , now he more then likely has two weapons.
 
The only reason to baton a folder is if your fixed blade can't chop through it within the first couple of tries. I recommend opening the folder first, and trying to place the strike near the pivot. (If you're batoning it, and want to test your fixed blade, positioning isn't as important.)
Good luck! Post a video, if you try it!

*note - batoning could result in less edge damage than trying to chop through a folder... but I don't recommend doing either.
 
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The best way to baton with a folder:

Step one: pick up and open folder

Step two: place folder on flat surface like a table infront of you with the butt touching the table and the knife facing directly up.

Step three: slam your forehead as hard as you can down on the upturned knife, if the lock doesn't fail you have a knife that is ready to be batoned with. Remember to take pictures of your test and share the results with us. ;)
 
Lapedog said:
The best way to baton with a folder:

Step one: pick up and open folder

Step two: place folder on flat surface like a table infront of you with the butt touching the table and the knife facing directly up.

Step three: slam your forehead as hard as you can down on the upturned knife, if the lock doesn't fail you have a knife that is ready to be batoned with. Remember to take pictures of your test and share the results with us. ;)
Click to expand...

I gave this a try and what I learned is.. 1. My Manix doesn't like sit on it's butt, and 2. There is a hell, I've seen it. All they let me play with were Ganzo's!
 
Lapedog said:
Uh oh, assuming this thread died cause everyone tried my 3 step baton with a folder method.
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It more than likely lost momentum because there are only so many times this subject can be discussed and still catch the attention of the veteran members here. It's a horse that has been beaten to dust at this point...
 
mistwalker said:
It more than likely lost momentum because there are only so many times this subject can be discussed and still catch the attention of the veteran members here. It's a horse that has been beaten to dust at this point...
Click to expand...

As a long time member, who tends participate sporadically these days, I'm sure I missed the last big debates on the subject.
 
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