Wood Destruction testing and results!

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Dec 27, 2013
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Hey Guys. A comment I get from time to time is "i only use stabilized woods, they are more durable and suitable for hard use knives" And as someone who has worked with a LOT of cocobolo and kingwood, I was skeptical about this. Can stabilized woods really be that much more durable? So i made a simple experiment to find out. I got 4 blocks of wood, one Cocobolo, one kingwood, one stabilized walnut "K&G" and one desert ironwood. I tried to pick relatively straight grained woods, though the walnut had a VERY small amount of curl in it "This will be important later"

I then went to the engineering building at my school late one night, and began dropping blocks of wood off the roof. I started at 1 story, then 2 and ended up at the 4th story, dropping blocks of wood off for the better part of two hours "I ran a LOT of stairs"

And here are my results!

The blocks at the start of this
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1 story drop: Minor scuffing. No damage
2 story: same
3 Story: The desert ironwood has started to devolpe a crack running its length, some corners show minor curshing

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4 story drop #2
A large chunk broke out of the corner of the desert ironwood. Upon examination, it seems to follow and area of figure and grain runout. Other blocks are more or less in shape, walnut shows the worst corner damage. Coco is slightly dented in, but kingwood remains almost completely unharmed.
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4 story drop #6
Another corner has broken out of the desert ironwood, a small sliver broke out of the walnut as well. It seems to have been a bit of curl just at the corner, no rough edges simply where the fibers pulled apart. One corner of the cocobolo is badly dented, the kingwood shows a small amount of crushed fibers on the very apex of a corner

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4 story drop #10
Large crack running diagonally through stabilized walnut at about the middle point. it seems to have followed a line of light curl, spider web crack is seen on the face. Looks like some grain run out. A small piece, about 1/16 inch deep by 1/4 wide piece of kingwood has broken out of the corner. Cocobolo is showing crushed corners

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4 story drop #11
Walnut has failed completely. Breaking along the crack. Upon inspection it is clear it was caused by grain run out. no fibers were really severed.
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4 story drop #19
Cocobolo corner tears out. Again, following an area of grain runout. Its was nearly 11:30 and i was tired, so i called this as the end of the test
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What does this all tell us?
Well for one thing, wood is REALLY strong! I was throwing these blocks off a 4th story for a long time. And most of the damage was very light. All and all there should be little to no worry about the durability of wood. You would have to be a serious klutz to break a wooded handle. If there are no corners and only rounded edges, it would be incredibly difficult to break.

It also shows that the actual strength of the wood is rather unimportant. The grain is what matter. I didnt expect to ever break the straight grained cocobolo and kingwood. The damage we saw was only at the corners and area of grain run out. And the walnut only failed after 10 drops of a 4 story building, and even then only by breaking across an area of grain runout. But this is important. We rarely stabilize perfectly straight grained blocks of wood, its almost always going to be curly, burled or otherwise figured pieces of wood. Though i would like to restate, 10 drops is a LOT of punishment.

It also shows some of brittle nature of desert ironwood. My assumption is that this wood was not perfectly dried "It was bought as a mostly dry slab and examined for visible cracks before testing" and i assume micro cracks began to propagate through the wood. I didnt have any professionally dried wood to test.

The rosewoods stood up amazingly well, taking very little damage, and i think if i had made the corners of all the block into ovaloids there would have been almost no damage at all.

Next up is going to be moisture testing when i get home. I will be submerging blocks in water at different temps for different periods of time, observing weight gain, expansion and relative rates of expansion as well as drying them in a 110 degree kiln to test their performance in a desert like environment.
 
I imagine you could drop balsa wood from 100 feet and find little to no damage despite it being a weak material. I feel that your drop test isn't fair to something like DI that is very dense and is doing to hit with a lot of energy. As a maker I worry about wear, strength and toughness and DI is near the top of the heap despite not being a material that tolerates a four story drop very well. Just my opinion...
 
Obviously there are good reasons why they call it kingwood .Now , since this block of kingwood is so abused .......can I get it , pleace :)
And thanks for your effort to do this test :thumbsup: BW , did you calculate how many steps you walk up and down :(
 
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I imagine you could drop balsa wood from 100 feet and find little to no damage despite it being a weak material. I feel that your drop test isn't fair to something like DI that is very dense and is doing to hit with a lot of energy. As a maker I worry about wear, strength and toughness and DI is near the top of the heap despite not being a material that tolerates a four story drop very well. Just my opinion...

I did consider that. But the difference in density is minimal to the point of being nearly inconsequential.

The ironwoods density comes in at 1.19 g/ml and the kingwood came in at 1.16 g/ml as measured by labratory grade scales and calipers.

And again, this is just for one point of note. I would be AMAZED if anyone has worn through kingwood, cocobolo or ironwood over even a lifetime of normal use of a knife. They are fantastically durable woods.

If you have any suggestions for other tests id be happy to design and run some tests
 
Very difficult to have a real conclusion in a test like this with no controls. The different woods would all have to have the same grain run out to be comparable. The walnut had a flaw to begin with. I'm satisfied that all 4 woods are very good for a knife. I believe you made a good effort and must have worn yourself out going up and down four stories. Thanks for sharing.
 
I imagine you could drop balsa wood from 100 feet and find little to no damage despite it being a weak material. I feel that your drop test isn't fair to something like DI that is very dense and is doing to hit with a lot of energy. As a maker I worry about wear, strength and toughness and DI is near the top of the heap despite not being a material that tolerates a four story drop very well. Just my opinion...
You can also drop from 4th story hardened/but not tempered blade and another blade from same steel but tempered .What that will show ?
Ironwood ..... 75 lbs/ft3 (1,210 kg/m3) Janka ..3,260 lbf (14,500 N)
cocobolo........ 69 lbs/ft3 (1,095 kg/m3) Janka hard..2,960 lbf (14,140 N)
Kingwood ...... 75 lbs/ft3 (1,200 kg/m3) Janka ... 3,340 lbf (17,240 N)
 
I did consider that. But the difference in density is minimal to the point of being nearly inconsequential.

The ironwoods density comes in at 1.19 g/ml and the kingwood came in at 1.16 g/ml as measured by labratory grade scales and calipers.

And again, this is just for one point of note. I would be AMAZED if anyone has worn through kingwood, cocobolo or ironwood over even a lifetime of normal use of a knife. They are fantastically durable woods.

If you have any suggestions for other tests id be happy to design and run some tests
It is valid test for me .The conditions for all tested wood were the same . Kingwood had the slightest damage and that means something ...............
 
Very difficult to have a real conclusion in a test like this with no controls. The different woods would all have to have the same grain run out to be comparable. The walnut had a flaw to begin with. I'm satisfied that all 4 woods are very good for a knife. I believe you made a good effort and must have worn yourself out going up and down four stories. Thanks for sharing.

That was probably the main conclusion. Wood is tough. Really, really really tough.

And i dont know. On the one hand they wood need to be all perfectly straight grained to test the direct strength, but how many makers use completely unfigured, straight grain walnut or koa "Mechanically almost identical to walnut" on their knives versus stabilized figured woods?

Of course it wasnt a perfect experiment, but i think the main message is clear. If you are picking woods for durabilty, any commonly used knife making wood "Cocobolo, kingwood, ironwood, stabilized wood so on and so on" Will be more than durable enough.
 
drag the samples behind your car for a couple miles and see what's left?
I don t drag my knive behind my car .But my knive often fell out of my hands ..................BW , why when you test your knives you use hammer on spine , why you don t make same test with knive in hand and try to break concrete block or cut nail ? We don t carry hammer with our knives ?
 
I think that there is very little damage one can do to a hardwood knife handle (partial or full tang knife) short of beating it with a hammer, crushing it in a vise, throwing your knife and having it careening off into rocks or slamming sideways into hard things, or leaving it out in the weather. These are not "normal use". Combat knives are in a category of their own.

As a woodworker I soften all the edges and slightly radius corners of any wood handle knife I buy that has NOT had those easings. I believe that this protects the handle from normal abuse such as from dropping or dropping or dropping :confused: - huh - I can't think of any other normal abuse for a knife that doesn't constitute excessive force.

If the wood handle starts out without checks or cracks there is little reason it won't remain good. Hardwoods are better than soft woods, of course and some hardwoods are better than others. Burls and other highly figured woods, stabilized or not, have more potential to fail especially on big handled knives where twisting and other action dynamics can be transferred through the blade/tang into the wood in ways that the variable grain can't resist.

IMHO. No building has been climbed in the development of this opinion. :D

Ray
 
I think that there is very little damage one can do to a hardwood knife handle (partial or full tang knife) short of beating it with a hammer, crushing it in a vise, throwing your knife and having it careening off into rocks or slamming sideways into hard things, or leaving it out in the weather. These are not "normal use". Combat knives are in a category of their own.

As a woodworker I soften all the edges and slightly radius corners of any wood handle knife I buy that has NOT had those easings. I believe that this protects the handle from normal abuse such as from dropping or dropping or dropping :confused: - huh - I can't think of any other normal abuse for a knife that doesn't constitute excessive force.

If the wood handle starts out without checks or cracks there is little reason it won't remain good. Hardwoods are better than soft woods, of course and some hardwoods are better than others. Burls and other highly figured woods, stabilized or not, have more potential to fail especially on big handled knives where twisting and other action dynamics can be transferred through the blade/tang into the wood in ways that the variable grain can't resist.

IMHO. No building has been climbed in the development of this opinion. :D

Ray

That was my main discovery to. The damage mainly occured at the sharp corners of the wood. If your handle lacks those, you are pretty much going to be fine.

And exactly. Wood is strong. Picking stabilized wood over rosewood and citing durability doesnt make much sense. The woods are both very very tough.
 
My friend /hunter/ carry same knive for more then 30 years .Unknown cheap wood and knive is in prefect shape .My 20 year walnut handle is OK ... Of course that all wood in this test a excelent , but .......... but kingwood is king in this test , that s my point ;)
 
OK. Dense wood takes a pounding. But if you use it as a knife handle and drop the knife with handle off the 4th story, my guess is your handle does well and your knife does less well. So your handle is tougher than your knife. BFD.

In real world, handles are more likely to be damaged by water, sun, and temperature variations than by being pounded or dropped. Your test is useful for testing toughness of wood, but of less value for testing durability of a knife handle. Perhaps desert ironwood would top cocobolo and kingwood with exposure to water and sun and temperature changes. Regardless, they all make great, durable handles.
 
yep i feel all those woods are over kill tho im still a guy that woudl rather have stablized walnut but more so to make the wood have more weight. a wood that shocked me after getting a knife back for repair... bocote a carbonsteel blade with bocote (knife got in a commercial dishwasher) handle the wood was for sure darkened the wood but it didnt pop the epoxy didnt warp or swell all the while the blade took a bad hit of rust. the pins were not peened so i punched them out and side loaded the scales to pop the epoxy. after regrinding the blade i cleaned the epoxy off the scales and reused them.
 
I've tried stabilized woods, I don't like them at all, to me it's plastic wood.
glad I have plenty of DI and your kingwood.

thanks for your time and effort on this Ben.
 
i need to add DI and stable maple burl went throught my dads dish washer also and the DI didnt move (blackened) but i needed to repair the maple agter a quick hand sand and sharpening the DI knife was good to go (XHP steel blade) the maple got the pins knocked ouot and rebuilt (still got to reuse the scales )
 
i need to add DI and stable maple burl went throught my dads dish washer also and the DI didnt move (blackened) but i needed to repair the maple agter a quick hand sand and sharpening the DI knife was good to go (XHP steel blade) the maple got the pins knocked ouot and rebuilt (still got to reuse the scales )

That's one of the funny things about desert ironwood. It has one of the tighest ratios of shrinkage. That is to say, the face grain, edge grain and long grain shrink at almost the exact same rate "and very little" so you have a wood resistant to changes from humidity and moisture

But DRYING desert ironwood is a pain in the behind like no other!
 
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