“Discovered” the Hollow Grind WOW!

For those of you who believe flat grinds slice better, please recommend some materials to perform a cutting test on. I haven't yet found anything a hollow grind cuts worse.
 
Douk-Douk is the best example. Full height hollow grind done shallow enough that to the eye most think it's flat. Lay a straightedge on it and it'd immediately apparent that it's a gentle hollow.
 
lambertiana said:
I have done side by side comparison cuts in heavy cardboard with full flat and high hollow grinds and the hollow grinds performed admirably, just as well as the full flat blades with similar overall height to thickness ratios.
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So have I and the hollow grinds sucked even in comparison to thicker FFG blades.

There may be 'properly done' hollow grinds that are as good but it's starting to get like the arguments that properly heat treated X traditional steel can match Y super steel. Yeah, perhaps but it's not hugely relevant for the majority of buyers and users and questionable even then. As I said before, too many 'ifs' that FFG simply doesn't require.

marrenmiller said:
For those of you who believe flat grinds slice better, please recommend some materials to perform a cutting test on. I haven't yet found anything a hollow grind cuts worse.
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Cutting through cardboard boxes, not just using the edge but where the blade passes fully through the cardboard and you keep cutting down. Apples, onions and similar.
 
I like both flat and hollow ground blades depending on the style of the knife. They each work well but I believe a Hollow grind is harder to do right. Here are a couple of the masters of the hollow grind.

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Pomsbz said:
So have I and the hollow grinds sucked even in comparison to thicker FFG blades.

There may be 'properly done' hollow grinds that are as good but it's starting to get like the arguments that properly heat treated X traditional steel can match Y super steel. Yeah, perhaps but it's not hugely relevant for the majority of buyers and users and questionable even then. As I said before, too many 'ifs' that FFG simply doesn't require.



Cutting through cardboard boxes, not just using the edge but where the blade passes fully through the cardboard and you keep cutting down. Apples, onions and similar.
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I think you may not be comparing similar enough knives (same stock thickness, grind height, edge thickness, edge type, etc) because I've cut all of those with similar hollow and flat grinds. I even just posted about doing the apple test with the most comparable blades I can find. Still haven't found an instance where flat outperforms hollow.

I think there's a lot of bad flat and hollow ground knives out there. Anecdotally, I never hear about the Sebenza 21's grind wedging in anything.
 
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This made me chuckle... not in any way of offense mind you, but still a good chuckle.

I always think straight razors, (since I also have a decent collection of classics, to further my love and appreciation for sharpened steel stuffs); artifacts have shown that folks were shaving long before the discovery of steel, even solid gold razors found in Egyptian tombs, and then steel ultimately revolutionized the game...
The wedge, (full flat ground), razor was the way to go for over 100 years or so... big heavy beard tanks that would plow through anything. Then they began folding into the handle for portability, the handles began contouring for better grips, and in the 1700's a few folks, particularly 1 guy in Sheffield, began experimented with hollow grinding blades, but they were partials, known as quarter and half hollows, and done free hand, they were often somewhat crude in their symmetry. However as technology improved, most people credit german manufacturers around 1880 or so, (maybe 1860?), for finally perfecting the true "full hollow" ground razor with the help of mechanical advancements, where many also attribute the commonly used term the "Hamburg Ring" to this milestone, as they were also called "singing razors" thanks to that beautiful and distinct "ring" you get off the blade when you know it's sharp, (for a time, even English many makers would send blades to Germany to be ground, until they perfected the technique themselves) ...
The hollow grind was the most pivotal moment in straight razor history since the discovery of steel itself, and became the industry standard until the replaceable flat safety razor all but killed the industry as whole save for a few remaining makers left hanging onto a niche crowd that has a penchant for the nostalgia.
The true definition of "razor sharp" came with the distinct singing "ting" of a freshly sharpened hollow ground razor running across a stone or strop...

I love that sound...

There is the draw back however with the much thinner edge being more fragile and prone to breakage if misused (or "whoops"), but the pure slicing ability is 2nd to none...
 
Peakbagger46 said:
I got a great deal on a used large Sebenza 21 drop point about six weeks ago and have been using it every day since. That hollow ground blade plain cuts! I thought a full flat grind was good but this is even better.

My understanding that with it being thin behind the edge that subsequent sharpenings won’t effect things, also a big plus. Why aren’t there more hollow ground folding knives out there?
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Buy an Opinel 8 or 9 and put both knives to a side by side test for 2 weeks on your cutting board.

Cutting is about thinness of the edge.

Slicing is further dictated by thickness of the spine.

When you get to stiff, hard to separate things like potatoes, I suspect the Opinel will outslice the Sebenza (assuming you keep them both sharp).

More to geometry than grind.
 
pinnah said:
Buy an Opinel 8 or 9 and put both knives to a side by side test for 2 weeks on your cutting board.

Cutting is about thinness of the edge.

Slicing is further dictated by thickness of the spine.

When you get to stiff, hard to separate things like potatoes, I suspect the Opinel will outslice the Sebenza (assuming you keep them both sharp).

More to geometry than grind.
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That's a fair point, but it's equally fair to point out that this comparison between grind types is only fair for a given edge thickness, primary grind height, edge angle, and stock thickness. Saying a thin Opinel outslices a Sebenza is likely true but says nothing about the merits of hollow grinds as a category.
 
marrenmiller said:
For those of you who believe flat grinds slice better, please recommend some materials to perform a cutting test on. I haven't yet found anything a hollow grind cuts worse.
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I can cut transparent, paper thin slices of tomato with my chef's knives. Is that better than a hollow grind would be? I don't know but it works pretty darned well for me. :)
 
marrenmiller said:
Sharpness is nice, but an axe can be sharp. Nothing wrong with wanting both sharpness and good geometry.
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I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. I said that I don't care. :thumbsup:

No one is advocating EDC-ing an axe to cut your apple at lunch and open your Amazon box after dinner. "Geometry" (that's the first time I've ever used that word on BF) would certainly matter in that context. As between an FFG Endura and a hollow grind Buck 110, however, there is virtually no substantive difference in cutting ability for the average user. If anything, most users would prolly prefer to kill a cardboard box with an Endura over a Buck 110, as the latter's hollow grind has to "part the waters" more the FFG Endura. And we would take an Opinel or Swiss Army Knife over either both.

But I have no stake in the game. I just don't care, except that she's sharp.

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Sharp.
 
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