1045 for knives?

not me, but it doesn't seem like it would get real hard, It might be good for hammers, throwers, axes and choppers.
 
i'm looking for a local place in the phoenix area that carries 1095 or 5061...are any of you guys in my area that knows of a place in the phoenix area that would have this kind of steel?
 
I recall that Bill Bagwell used to use some 1045 or 1050 back in the day. Now I think he uses 1084.
 
I still think it has awesome hamon potential....but all for show, no real go. I posed the same question on this forum awhile ago, just not enough carbon in 1045 to do anything good as far as blades are concerned, 1050 is about as low as you should go, according to Kevin, Robert, and others....

great steel for hammerheads though, I love it, quench right in brine no worries.
 
Until recently I lived in just one of two worlds, hypereutectoid (above .8% carbon) instead of hypoeutectoid (below .8% carbon), and I was ignorant of that world of lower carbon contents. But some of my testing has now gone into that area and I have found that ignorance is bliss!!! Ms for 1050 is around 625F and it is done hardening by the time it reaches 475F, Ms for 1045 will be even higher and quenches into brine or more extreme mediums may get you to 60HRC. Do not interrupt any quenches! Get it as cold as you can as fast as you can and you may get a nice letter opener. From a hardenability and metallurgical standpoint I don’t think steels below .60% C should even be considered in the high carbon category. Alloying can help things along but we are talking about 10XX series steels here.

Can you make a knife out of these steels? Yes, and you can also make a knife out of copper or aluminum. Should you make a knife out of these steels? I will leave that up to you.

The businessman in me says that I would like to sell as many knives from the hypereutectoid world as I can in a market where you may also be selling knives. That part of me says… YES! Please! By all means use this steel instead of the ones I would use! :thumbup:

But another part of me (still not the altruistic part) that has seen too many years in the knife market realizes that your low hardness blades may actually become a hot item to the masses who have been indoctrinated by the sales pitches for silly putty knives, making my life even more difficult. :( That part would say I would rather you not use those steels.

And finally the nice guy in me would tell you to do yourself a favor and not use those steels for blades. For myself, a sword made from 1050 I may hang on my wall, a knife made from 1050 I may give to a kid to use for throwing or digging in the dirt. Either made from 1045 I would simply take to the nearest scrap yard and get a few pennies to apply towards real steel. Hardened 1045 and cold worked A36 will not be that different and there is plenty of A36 laying around for free, and no need to spend any further on equipment other than a hammer :)
 
I can’t think of too many reasons why anyone would want to seek out that steel, but I guess it would really depend on what you wanted to do with it. It’s definitely not a “high performance” steel,… whatever that means. :) The nice things about it are that it’s easy to forge, easy to file and easy enough to heat treat. So, it might be good for novelty type “blacksmith” knives with a lot of intricate forged detail, or maybe a machete, or some such thing, that you wanted to take into the field and sharpen with a file.
 
Perhaps I should have said "Good enough " sword, and "Barely fair "knife.
I agree that 1045 is a less than optimal steel, but the question was HAS anyone use 1045 for knifemaking.
Perfectly suitable swords ( and many knives) have been made for over a thousand years from steel assaying around 1045-1050. Are they better than a modern 1095 sword or knife?....No. But did they defend many a Fair Maiden, and kill many a Dragon?....YES! ( OK, maybe the dragon swords were 1080). The battlefields of pre 1800 conflicts were littered with these blades and the bodies of those killed and maimed by them.

Properly forged, and water or brine quenched, a 1045 sword will withstand a lot of abuse.You will never keep a razor edge, and will have to straighten it if cutting is careless, but the blade will cut.

I would use 5160 before I would use 1045, and would prefer 1080 to either one of those.
Stacy
 
Both make good knives, but they are totally different animals. Not meaning to sound like a smart ass, but if you have to ask the question, use 5160.

5160 is an alloy steel with chromium being the main alloying element.It is deep hardening and thus fairly simple and forgiving to HT. It makes a tough blade - excellent for choppers and hard use knives like camp and survival knives

1095 is a high carbon simple steel with basically 99% iron and 1% carbon. It is shallow hardening and requires a fast quenching medium and has a degree of skill required to avoid problems in the HT. It makes wicked sharp edges, but is more brittle than 5160. Excellent for slicers and cutters.

My favored teaching steel is 1080 for a lot of reasons that have been discussed in many long threads by Kevin, mete, Nathan, and myself. I would recommend that over 5160 or 1095 to a beginner.

Stacy
 
Good point Stacy,... 1045/50 will get you every bit as dead as 1095. :)

How dead is dead? LOL :D
 
Bronze and copper was once the only metal used on the battle field, and an equal amount of people were easily dispatched with them. Stone was used before that and a wooden stick will do the job nicely. There were also a good number of steel swords that had a much higher carbon content, which seemed to have gotten such good press in their day that the mystique hangs in there to this day. The worst cut I got recently was on the top of the plastic straw sticking out of the top of a fast food drink- humans are fairly soft targets.

Actually Stacy the original question was has anyone tired of using 1045 for knives, and I am certain that many who have soon tired of it:D;). But seriously, if the qualifier will be who has tried it, well many things have been tried, I know scores of guys who swear by knives made from railroad spikes, rebar or even horse shoes. In knifemaking these days simply doing what others have done is a real hit and miss proposition at best.

The logical and reasonable way to approach steel choice would be to determine what the blade needs to do and then pick the steel that will best achieve the task from the modern pool of alloys (no reason to restrict ourselves to choices from millennia past), then work it to optimize those qualities. Or at least that is my method, and I have no reason or desire to force it on anybody else, but it seems to make a lot of sense to me.
 
There is a trend out there for using lower carbon steels for knives. Mebbe they are easier to heattreat , grind , who knows. If guys wanna use 1045, 4140, 420hc, well, that's their bidness. Pretty tough selling the idea you are making a superior product tho.
When I ask why, usually the answer is "why, it works just fine!" "SHRUG"
Then again, I don't hunt bear with a .22 caliber either.
This has developed into a very good thread.
 
Good points Kevin, but a nice sharp piece of 1045 will make a "cleaner" kill than a wooden stick etc... :)

I've also noticed that a nice clean cut bleeds better and faster, and hurts less...

I'd rather be killed with a nice sharp piece of steel than a plastic straw any day. LOL :D
 
Stacy, Kevin,... I think we better stop this kind of talk before somebody gets in trouble. :D

HA HA!... Laugh Kevin! LOL
 
Tai Goo said:
Good points Kevin, but a nice sharp piece of 1045 will make a "cleaner" kill than a wooden stick etc... :)
Click to expand...

And a blade of 1084 would make many more cleaner kills, if you found yourself on such a battlefield.;)

Tai Goo said:
...I'd rather be killed with a nice sharp piece of steel than a plastic straw any day. LOL :D
Click to expand...

I will wholeheartedy second that motion! I cut myself slightly on a blade earlier in the week and it didn't hurt nearly as much as that straw did- that was nasty!
 
Let's say that I wanted to make something like a WWI Enfield Bayonet. It would have a comparatively narrow 17-inch long blade. I want to be able to ram this blade into a door with a 10 pound rifle behind it and be certain that it wouldn't break (bend a bit maybe, but not break). I also want to be able to make 1 million of them cheaply and quickly (as if there is a war on). Assume that chrome is a critical material and unavailable. Would 1045 be a reasonable material? I assume I could find a fairly simple water-based quenching approach. Could I get the blade up to say 50 RC? If I wanted 50 RC would I be better off using something with a bit more carbon?

You may laugh at 50 RC, but that is closer to the norm for some classic combat knives and even some well known American cutlery than 58 RC. http://www.knifemerchant.com/products.asp?manufacturerID=8
 
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