107 Scout or Empress Trio Set Paring Knife?

oregon

oregon

Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
5,874




107 or Empress set paring knife? Which is it?

Can you always tell the difference?

Does the 107 always have "107" on its tang stamp?



Does the Empress knife always have the fancy script font for the word "Buck?"



This comes up once in a while and here it is again.

Thank you.
 
Last edited:
Most Empress sets came in the red Buckarta, a few in black, Empress knives were the 2 line tang stamp, Scout was 3 line w/ 107, Scouts have 3 pins handles, and are black Buckarta.....and there are exceptions to all of these "data guidelines"
 
Thank you Scott.

The first set of three photos is from an auction listing as 107. I believe it to be the Empress paring knife, however.

The next photo is an archive to illustrate the actual 107 tang stamp that I am familiar with.

The last photo is of my black Empress Set's paring knife which I know not to be a 107.
 
Last edited:
I consider myself an accumulator and not so much a collector. I still like a clear bright line to follow in order to determine what I have or might acquire. Like many things in life I've noticed clarity is not possible. Statistics rule. For example, in this thread's question "107 or Empress" I figure that the odds are that the target knife is not a 107 and that it is an Empress set piece.

The target knife comes with a sheath marked "107."

Anyone willing to make an iron-clad ruling on the target knife? 107 or Empress?
 
I agree with Scott, those sporting black micarta handles are more rare. Notice the early models had 3 handle pins and the stamp was on the left side. Opposite for other Buck fixed blades. I really like that old English stamp. DM
 
oregon said:
Anyone willing to make an iron-clad ruling on the target knife? 107 or Empress?
Click to expand...

To solicit an "iron-clad" ruling is to deny the "Buckness" of the knife......
It is more likely than not to be an Empress....but like all things Buck... substitutions are well known to be fact.
Required reading, Primed for Re-Introduction by Larry Oden. June 2005 newsletter.
 
Thank you Scott, David and DeSotoSky. I value your sage wisdom.

So my stumbling over the lack of the "107" on the target knife should not lead me to believe that the target knife is not a 107, if I read you both correctly. That would have to mean that the target knife originally could have come in a 107 box, was intended by Buck to be a 107 and somehow got an Empress blade (107 blade bin was empty so an Empress blade was used to finish the order) or Empress paring knife blades are perfectly interchangeable with 107 blades by acceptable definitional variance. So the target knife (the burgundy knife shown in the first three photos) is an exception, doesn't follow the guidelines and can be a 107?

Doesn't this statistical anomaly open the door for anyone to sell an Empress paring knife (less expensive to obtain $50) as a 107 (much more expensive to have $200)? Shaky ground like this makes it difficult/impossible to know what got and how to value what you might get. The mind balks and my senses reel. I'm gonna get a pillow for my head...
 
We are only talking about possibilities, not absolutes. I think it really only adds value with the provenance of having come in a 107 box, and that would really be rare. In the same light, every eBay seller tries to list their Frontiersman as a rare Nemo.... how many times have you seen that? It's the provenance of having a Nemo sheath that adds the value, otherwise it's just another Frontiersman..... :o
 
Many thanks for the June 2005 Newsletter recco. I have no absolute certainty now for 107 vs Empress Trio paring knife decisions. Larry Oden nailed it to the wall for me. Probability rules.
 
Buck's use of maroon micarta is well dated to 1973. Whereas, the Scout didn't show up until 1976 and not with the old English stamp or burgundy micarta. Rather with a block letter stamp. For this reason I say it's not a 107. However, it's known that models were substituted during Buck's mfg.. To me that knife with that sheath does not make it a 107. If it has the box and paperwork for a 107 I'd certainly have to give it the nod. But from Buck, --- some uncertainty exists. Still, the time line for that color micarta doesn't match. DM
 
David Martin said:
Buck's use of maroon micarta is well dated to 1973. Whereas, the Scout didn't show up until 1976 and not with the old English stamp or burgundy micarta. Rather with a block letter stamp. For this reason I say it's not a 107. However, it's known that models were substituted during Buck's mfg.. To me that knife with that sheath does not make it a 107. If it has the box and paperwork for a 107 I'd certainly have to give it the nod. But from Buck, --- some uncertainty exists. Still, the time line for that color micarta doesn't match. DM
Click to expand...

That's a good point David and I think valid for other knives but I think the burgundy was used right along in the Empress trio set, not just in 1973. Black is the scarcer color for this set. I'm gonna have to think on it a bit more. Too bad Larry Oden doesn't hang around here much. Of course I agree the greatest probability is that it is an Empress, were just toying with the 'possibilities', not probabilities here.
 
I have a scout with a 2 pin handle and one with a 3 pin handle and they both have Blackarta... and are 3 liners...
I'm trying to find some pictures of them but no luck yet... :eek:
 
I don't doubt that burgundy micarta was used for a longer time with the Empress Trio. Thus, plucking it off the mfg. line to sell it as a 107 could occur and I know breaking up the sets occur. This reduces us being able to pin this down as a 107. If the seller had the original box we wouldn't be discussing it. So, this exercise is academic. DM
 
Early, Your 2 pin handled 107 should be from 1984 or after and with no finger guard and black birch wood. I'm told there are examples floating around with a guard. I've not seen one. Yet, in my states I don't see what those in Calif. do. DM
 
Oregon, Nice photos. Your top knife in the above photo. I purchased one like it for a gift for a Buck collector (I4Bucks) some years back, perhaps 2004. It was just like that one only no year stamp. Plus, it had the sheath that was stitched on both sides with a flap. The wood was jet black like that and the stamp was on the right side. DM
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top