1075 vs. O-1

t1mpani

t1mpani

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These are the choices I have for a custom knife I'm having made and am basically looking for opinions on the differences in edge holding, toughness, etc. This is going to be a large, heavy camp knife that will see its share of chopping and splitting but occassionally it might be called upon to skin something so it does have to cut and keep cutting.

Anyway, I have ample experience with O-1 but none with 1075 and before I just went with my kneejerk reaction towards the steel I'm familiar with, I figured I'd ask here. Maybe 1075 is the steel I've been looking for all my life. ;)

Appreciate any thoughts,
Warren
 
C'mon now :)

I know there isn't really a "best" between them, any more than any other two steels, I'm just looking for some impressions. I've always known of 1075 but never used a knife made out of it.

I guarantee somebody here has... ;)
 
{t1mpani} what are you talking about the new linger wsk? He has only these two-steel 1075 and 01 maybe you should take look my thread which includes　1095　as well.(http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350838) Anyway I ordered the knife from Mr. linger. I’m in the waiting list I will receiveit in the next few months...I chose 1075 I don't know why . I will tell you more after I get the knife.


plan no useless move, take no step in vain.

ishiyumisan
 
Actually yes, I am. :) I'm on the list, too, though we hadn't settled on a steel yet. I may try 1075 just to try it. I dunno which of us will get his first, but I'd certainly like to share impressions when they arrive.
 
For technical specs, composition, charpy values, uses, heat treat schedules, etc, see web sites like Crucible and the Steel FAQs by Joe Talmadge and Spyderco.

From a user's standpoint, I can offer my personal views with the caveat that I am by no means a metalurgist, material scientist or knife expert.

The steels are similar in that they are both carbon steel, with 1075 being a simple carbon steel and 01 being a tool steel (originally intended for use in gauges), however there are some differences, which can become very important based on heat treat.

If both are heat treated fairly soft (uniform 56RC for example) you will not see much of a difference in actual use between the two steels.

However, with a more optimal (depending on intended use of course) heat treat you will see some differences.

O1 can be heat treated to a much higher hardness before becoming brittle. To attain high hardness levels (for more strength, higher levels of edge retention) in 1075, it is barely tempered back and can become brittle.

Of course, few makers heat treat 1075 this way, since that is not what it is spec'd for. Rather 1075 is tempered back more, for a tougher steel which is less prone to chipping, is easier to sharpen, etc. I think 1084 is a better compromise personally, but I am not a knife maker.

Some old kitchen knives were made from 1075 and are easy to sharpen aqnd take a wicked edge.

O1 is more alloyed than 1075, and offers higher stength and wear resistance.

For a large camp knife, I think either one of the steels will be suitable for your use. Personally, I would go with O1, but you should find out which steel you maker is most comfortable working with.

Nick Wheeler does an exceptional job heat treating O1 (the best I have used), and if you are looking for a blade in O1 specifically, I would check out his work, it is excellent.

For a softer, tougher heat treat, take a look at Chudzinski. I have a small paring knife (1/16" full flat grind, convex edge) in O1 that cuts very well, and has held a good edge while being very easy to sharpen.

As well, if your maker will consider other steels, I find that L6 and 52100 make great steels for hard use knives.

In summary, with a hard use heat treat (not super hard like a light use knife) you will probably not see any difference. Any good carbon steel with a decent heat treat is a much better choice, in my opinion, than the more brittle stainless steels for a hard use camp knife.

Hope that helps.
KT
 
O1 can be heat treated to a much higher hardness before becoming brittle. To attain high hardness levels (for more strength, higher levels of edge retention) in 1075, it is barely tempered back and can become brittle.
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I believe this is the other way around isn't it? O1 has significant higher carbon content and also like you note,

O1 is more alloyed than 1075, and offers higher stength and wear resistance.
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This means O1 will be more brittle at same hardness, say 58-60rc, at same level 1075 will be much tougher because it is lower carbon and simple steel (not alloyed). No? If this isn't true then explain? :confused:
 
0-1 is perhaps the most forgiving of any knife quality steel other than the very simple alloy types, and produces a blade of excellent quality for most normal use. It can be heat treated very easily. Further references? Well, the ole' master, Cooper, used it for many years and folks do love his blades because they're tough. Awhile back, one of the best of the blade smiths said that well treated 0-1 would out cut any Damascus, and no one argued with him. Edge holding is exceptional. 0-1 is precision ground unless you're lucky enough to stumble across some mill bar. Goof up the heat treat and 0-1 will let you try again as often as you like, as long as you don't overheat the metal. Tough on grinding belts.

steels from 1045 through 1095 are the ultimate in simplicity and very shallow hardening so they may be used to make a selectively hardened edge as one sees on old Japanese swords. Toughness is outstanding, with these alloys being used for grader blade edges, truck springs and files. Uses up grinding belts at quite a rapid rate. Edges are acceptable with 1045, good with 1060, nice with 1084, and excellent with 1095, W-1 or W-2. Those last two are often referred to as O-F, old file. It is very easy to get the higher carbon end of this series way too hard to make a good knife.

I copied these above descriptions down from a book I have: "Blades and Stuff". Hope this helps.

I'd go with O1 personally and 1095 over 1075. In fact if the choice had 1095 I'd go with that one over 01.
 
Hmmm, it's as I feared---they're both acceptable choices. I may go with classic ol' O-1, especially since that's what Beck used to use. 'Course, I suppose I could ask Roger which he's the most happy with, also. As the one doing the HT, he may have found he likes one better than the other.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. :)

Warren
 
This means O1 will be more brittle at same hardness, say 58-60rc, at same level 1075 will be much tougher because it is lower carbon and simple steel (not alloyed). No? If this isn't true then explain?
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At lower hardness levels (~55) 1075 will be tougher than 01, but the difference is slight, to the point of being an academic point rather than of practical significance. See Cliff Stamp's Randall #1 review for example.

However, the picture changes at high hardness (over ~60RC). If you want 1075 run that hard, you are basically running it as quenched. As such it is quite brittle. In contrast, 01 as qunched runs like ~66-68, so if you want a ~60 balde you are tempering it back a bit, increasing toughness.

For an example, I took the 1075 blade out of an Opinel as I was replacing it with an old M2 saw blade (a project I am still working on). I took the 1075 blade an tried to reharden it. Using a propane torch I slowly brought it to non-magnetic and quenched it in some old peanut oil. The oil was from my deep fryer. It warped slightly, but not significantly. I set it aside.

For the sake of honesty, I set it aside because I was going to temper it in the kitchen oven, but I had to wait until my wife was away, as she would probably kill me if she found me sticking an old knife blade in her oven.

Some days later, I accidently knocked it off my work bench onto the concrete floor. It basically shattered, breaking into several pieces.

Now, this is not a defintive test by any means, and I am not a knife maker. I just wanted the blade harder, so that it would be stronger (less prone to edge roll) so I could put an even thinner edge on it.

Anyways, I make no claims of being a metalurgist, those are just my opinions as a user.
 
D-2 is superior in edgeholding and stain resistance than either O-1 or 1075. All are good steels. D-2 is probably superior in toughness, too, but I'm not sure about that. That being said, properly heat treated, O1 makes as good a knife as you could want, where stain resistance isn't an issue. Ricky Fowler makes a lot of blades of O1, and uses tool black on them to retard corrosion. Seems to work, at least temporarily.
 
warden41272 said:
D-2 is probably superior in toughness, too, but I'm not sure about that.
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Well, yes and no. Toughness yes, but not ruggedness--and there is a difference. D2 is "tough" in that it is highly resistant to deformation, meaning it is very unwilling to blunt or roll. Thin edges in D2 (at high hardness, where it tends to be run) do well in push cutting on hard materials, as they aren't likely to roll over under the pressure. D2 also does well, of course, in slicing, do to its high abrasion resistance. It is not, however, well suited to any kind of impact work where it will hit something (chopping, stabbing) or be hit by something (splitting, batoning) as it is brittle when run at high hardness. Any steel WILL deform if you exceed its strength limits, and D2 will largely skip the blunting/flexing steps and go straight to chipping/breaking. It's true that you can lessen this brittleness (somewhat) by running it softer, but that also robs it of much of its abrasion resistance and strength/rigidity--which are its main selling points in the first place. And even when softer, it's still not as rugged as either 0-1, 1075, or any number of other tool and alloy steels.

In other words, a great steel for some applications, but not well suited to this type of knife.
 
t1mpani said:
Actually yes, I am. :) I'm on the list, too, though we hadn't settled on a steel yet. I may try 1075 just to try it. I dunno which of us will get his first, but I'd certainly like to share impressions when they arrive.
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t1mpani How you doin?
You know mine will be ready around February:D
and your?:)
 
Doing well, thanks, and you?

Should be not too far behind--I think it will shortly be having leather formed around it. I'm looking forward to it very much--finally will be able to add some practical example to my theorizing about the likely advantages/shortcomings of this design.

I'll be sure to post impressions when it arrives. :)
 
;)

Yes, I've oft' considered S7 (even S5), though not on this knife. Due to its little flat-ground section, it does need some edge holding ability, so I agree that O1 is probably the best here--though I think 1075 would serve very well. Of course, there's always INFI and 3V, but I don't think Jerry would lend me any barstock and I don't WANT to know how much Roger would want to fashion this grinder's nightmare out of 3V! Plus, I think it'd be hard to achieve the multiple temper zones with either of those, so back to O1. :D
 
Possibly not (and same for INFI), though I have chipped both before. It is an exceptionally strong performer, no doubt!
 
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