1080 vs 80crv2

B

blaksdc

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Oct 10, 2019
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From what I read on this forum, it is to my understanding that, having only a gas forge to HT steel, 1080/1084 would be a better choice than 80crv2 steel. Now, what I'm not sure about is, HTing 80crv2 the same as 1080 would give me the same results as 1080(so it'd be some kind of a waste), or would it come out as inferior?
I'm sorry if I missed this info in one of the threads, but near me 80crv2 comes at almost half the price as 1080, so I'd use it as a substitute if there are no downsides.
 
I depends on how you HT in your gas forge. There's a wide margin between using a magnet, using decalescence and using a thermocouple to control your temp. If you are the magnet type, V2 isn't going to be optimal because it's aus temp is quite hotter than Curie point. But if you use a t/c, you can get very good results.
 
80CrV2 will work in a home forge.

It will not get it's full potential of toughness without a 5 minute soak at austenitizing temp in the 1575°F area ( can fluctuate between 1550 and 1600F with no harm).
The result with a short soak of 60 seconds or so will be better than plain 1080, but not what it can be.
Even with the least soak, it will be as good or slightly better than 1080.

A couple gallons of Canola oil will work as a quenchant.
 
I will add one more thing to Stacy's numbers. V2's brittle temper range begins at around 395°f so don't temper above that temp.
 
Joel Mercier said:
I depends on how you HT in your gas forge. There's a wide margin between using a magnet, using decalescence and using a thermocouple to control your temp. If you are the magnet type, V2 isn't going to be optimal because it's aus temp is quite hotter than Curie point. But if you use a t/c, you can get very good results.
Click to expand...

I usually use the magnet to get the Curie point (around 1415-1430 F?), and i watch for recalescence while normalizing the steel, to see which color I'll have to look for while heating. I tend to have a hard time observing decalescence while the steel is in the forge because of the light. I also might have mixed up recalescence and decalescence while writing, don't hate me for that.
By the way I'm pretty sure no steel hardens well by only using a magnet (meaning quench at non magnetic point), so looking for decalescence or at least waiting for the steel get a bit hotter, and change color by a shade or two, is kind of mandatory. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
80CrV2 will work in a home forge.

It will not get it's full potential of toughness without a 5 minute soak at austenitizing temp in the 1575°F area ( can fluctuate between 1550 and 1600F with no harm).
The result with a short soak of 60 seconds or so will be better than plain 1080, but not what it can be.
Even with the least soak, it will be as good or slightly better than 1080.

A couple gallons of Canola oil will work as a quenchant.
Click to expand...

Thanks Stacy, and thank you Joel for the infos. Basically what I will try to do is normalize a few times 80crv2 steel, and in the meanwhile look for its recalescence color. After that I'll heat it up to non magnetic and keep on heating it to the desired color, keep it that color for as long as I can and then heat in a medium speed oil. After that it's the temper. For the first times I'll temper in ascending temperatures, until I get the desired hardness.

I usually work with 1070 as it's the only simple steel I can find locally, and follow the same steps, minus the soak. The only difference I expect should be the recalescence color, right?
 
Joel Mercier said:
V2's brittle temper range begins at around 395°f so don't temper above that temp.
Click to expand...

Do you have a source for this that you could point me towards? I'd like to learn more. My own personal experience has not shown any noticeable embrittlement at higher tempering temps (up to about 230C/450F) but then again I haven't really looked for it either
 
Tempered martensite embrittlement doesn’t take a “tough” steel and suddenly make it extremely chippy or brittle. It’s usually a relatively small decrease in toughness. However, since both hardness and toughness go down with the higher tempering temperature, it is undesirable.

We have seen TME show up in some steels at 450F and some higher like 500F. So the safe default is 400F, in my opinion.
 
Screenshot_20181031-112945.png.a8dde1bcaa0ec893970f61eda072217c.png
 
May be just the way I am reading the chart, but the testing looks all over the place. The only area I see as an extreme low spot for TME is around 275C/525F. I agree that the peak toughness vs hardness is 200C/400F
 
Thanks for the responses. I'm almost tempted to do some side-by-side testing on a few pieces of 80CrV2 tempered at 400 and 450F. Almost ;)
 
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