1095 (produced by stock-removal by a company) is OVER-PRICED!!!!!

Everybody, I'm obviously not the only person with an opinion about 1095 steel. I should have thought more before rattling off (after 35 years of carrying a knife). I love the performance of 1095; I'm just questioning the prices we, as consumers, are being charged for products that are easily made, American or not. I have several knives that are 1085, 1075, and 1055. I love them. Would I pay more than $100 for any of them? No.
 
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Taken from my post on page 4. You seem to have slipped right past it while many have stated a similar comment.

Care to voice an opinion?
NJBillK said:
Companies have to pay for machines, upkeep, belts, cleaning crews, and a Bunch of other items not often figured into knife cost.
For further examples; what do you think pays for the paper in the offices photo copier?
What about paying for the staples in the staplers, and the staplers themselves...

There is more to a knifes cost than just what method it is made...
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If I made someone a knife from 1084 and it had micarta slabs, it would likely cost around (and likely over) $100.

Think about it like this;
How many hours have to be invested in making a knife by hand, stock removal or forged?
You are looking at 8-12 hours, and taking cost of materials out of it, and looking solely at labor, that equates to an average of $10 an hour...

Now start adding in the cost of wood slabs, micarta, epoxy, belts, heat treating service (between $10-$15 per knife), and shipping that is $7-$9...

You can work a part time gig and get better pay... And you don't feel that a custom knife made to your specifications is worth even that?
- How abut this, Next time you are buying a burger at a fast food joint, think of that being a comparative pay scale, and your not willing to pay for that.

Which do you like better, your custom knife, or a crappy 1/4 pounder?
 
J.Davey said:
I'm just questioning the prices we, as consumers, are being charged for products that are easily made,
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How many knives have you made?
You seem to "know" that it is easy to do so. Is this an assumption or first hand experience?
 
J.Davey said:
Everybody, I'm obviously not the only person with an opinion about 1095 steel. I should have thought more before rattling off (after 35 years of carrying a knife). I love the performance of 1095; I'm just questioning the prices we, as consumers, are being charged for products that are easily made, American or not. I have several knives that are 1085, 1075, and 1055. I love them. Would I pay more than $100 for any of them? No.
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You seemed to have ignored everything most people have said. You don't want to have a discussion......
 
J.Davey said:
I love the performance of 1095; I'm just questioning the prices we, as consumers, are being charged for products that are easily made, American or not. I have several knives that are 1085, 1075, and 1055. I love them. Would I pay more than $100 for any of them? No.
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Hmm. I love 1095 as well. Love everything about it. I don't see knives made of 1095 as "products that are easily made". I can't make one, so I pay the price. $100 for one? Sure.

Got an old custom slipjoint in 1095 made by Bob Ogg. Man, it's neat. I'd pay a bunch of money for another one.
 
NJBillK said:
How many knives have you made?
You seem to "know" that it is easy to do so. Is this an assumption or first hand experience?
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\

You miss the point. I started this thread referring to producer's of name brands, and not individual artists.
 
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Remember that if you are buying a "speciality cutlery company" knife, the makers getting at best, 60% of the MSRP or about 70-75% of the retail price. The makers that do sell direct will not under cut their dealers "discounted" price,so they make more on that. For factory knives and specialty makers that are big enough to add distributors like Blue Ridge into the supply chain, they get 45-50% MSRP. i was told by one guy who makes custom stuff that he was able to get in with Willams-Sonoma but had to "sell" his kitchen blades to them for 55% of MSRP to account for discounting. The problem is that W-S does not stock the knives and there is no discounting and that us custom makers do not have MSRP. We have the sales price. These knives are "sold" at full price and drop shipped from the maker and W-S basically gets 45% of sale price for advertising the product on their website and handling the payment. Nice work if you can get it.
 
Ok, what about my quote from page 4 that references production companies.
What covers the cost of their office pens, what about the other material goods not associated with the individual knife, but the company that the knife sale supports, et al?
 
NJBillK said:
Ok, what about my quote from page 4 that references production companies.
What covers the cost of their office pens, what about the other material goods not associated with the individual knife, but the company that the knife sale supports, et al?
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Where it gets more interesting is when you compare actual manufacturers with what are essentially "design houses." ESEE fits into the later category. TOPS used to but they now make their stuffing house and still appear to charge the same as they did when Rowen was making their knives. Like said before, you also have the situation where a company decided to sell primarily though dealers like those guys as opposed to sticking with the direct sales model like Busse or Survive.
 
J.Davey said:
Everybody, I'm obviously not the only person with an opinion about 1095 steel. I should have thought more before rattling off (after 35 years of carrying a knife). I love the performance of 1095; I'm just questioning the prices we, as consumers, are being charged for products that are easily made, American or not. I have several knives that are 1085, 1075, and 1055. I love them. Would I pay more than $100 for any of them? No.
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How about you making this knife then telling us all how much you'd charge for it.

Hess%2520Hunter.JPG
 
Even with buying the blades from GEC or whoever, I don't know how those guys make money on them!!!! Bark River and their friends and neighbors up there in the UP of Michigan have really gotten that human touch heavy production process down to an art form. :eek: But then again, I still can't figure out how Estwing makes money selling their little leather handled hatchets for $38 at HD considering all of the hand work that still goes into them.
leghog said:
How about you making this knife then telling us all how much you'd charge for it.

Hess%2520Hunter.JPG
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My 2 cents FWIW. There is nothing special about 1095/ 1085 etc yet some companies tend to advertise it like its the new super steel! I do think that knives made by GEC ( and their associated companies) are somewhat overpriced. That is at least partly due to their business model. i.e they make small batches a model number and then change it. Demand keeps the prices up. Yes they are at least partly hand made but blades & liners are still blanked out of rolls just like Case or Victorinox. But they also do not produce near the volume of product. Years ago Schrade made almost all their knives of 1095 and prices were generally under $20. Why? Volume. Unfortunately for them and many other large companies the rising cost of material and labor drove business overseas and/or bankruptcy. I see threads and videos where people brag about the F&F of GEC or Tidioute and rag on Case, but I have many Schrade knives that cost in the $10-20 range when new (and not much more now on Ebay) that have F&F every bit as good as GEC/Tidioute/Northwoods etc. There are also plenty of Case knives available with excellent F&F that are under $80, you just have to be picky.
 
NMpops said:
My 2 cents FWIW. There is nothing special about 1095/ 1085 etc yet some companies tend to advertise it like its the new super steel!
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Who does that? OP said a similar thing but wouldn't back it up.

When you buy a GEC you are not buying it because the steel is the end all.
 
The small pile of barstock in my shop that came from the bankruptcy sale would indicate that more than a few old Schrade knives were made from 1084. ;)
NMpops said:
My 2 cents FWIW. There is nothing special about 1095/ 1085 etc yet some companies tend to advertise it like its the new super steel! I do think that knives made by GEC ( and their associated companies) are somewhat overpriced. That is at least partly due to their business model. i.e they make small batches a model number and then change it. Demand keeps the prices up. Yes they are at least partly hand made but blades & liners are still blanked out of rolls just like Case or Victorinox. But they also do not produce near the volume of product. Years ago Schrade made almost all their knives of 1095 and prices were generally under $20. Why? Volume. Unfortunately for them and many other large companies the rising cost of material and labor drove business overseas and/or bankruptcy. I see threads and videos where people brag about the F&F of GEC or Tidioute and rag on Case, but I have many Schrade knives that cost in the $10-20 range when new (and not much more now on Ebay) that have F&F every bit as good as GEC/Tidioute/Northwoods etc. There are also plenty of Case knives available with excellent F&F that are under $80, you just have to be picky.
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TOPS for one. While they almost never sell for that much and are typically heavily "discounted", a goodly number of the ESEE knives have MSRP's of well over $200.
elkins45 said:
What high volume producer is making 1095 knives and charging $200 for them?
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jdm61 said:
TOPS for one. While they almost never sell for that much and are typically heavily "discounted", a goodly number of the ESEE knives have MSRP's of well over $200.
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Street price from a reputable dealer is never that. You know that. Just pointing it out for those that might not.
 
In this day and age of internet sales, and instant comparisons, MSRP doesn't even mean that much. Same for any other pricing from the manufacturers side of things, MAP, or not. Especially to anyone not shopping on a US dollar. Local stock here depends on the exchange rate the day the items were ordered by the store, or worse, whatever profit estimate guessed at by a drop-shipper. Add to that single point of import in some places (Zen does good work here, and I'm happy for work they have done in australia regarding rules, but they do have a monopoly) A lot of Europe looked to be the same, with several storefronts I saw packed with your standard batch of fakes, and even comparing Euro prices some things were way out of whack, and many within a dollar of US street price.

Do I have a problem with a mattress store method of pricing? Sure, but that is a different discussion. And one can always find flaw with one or another of a companies policies, or its corporate culture. At the end of the day there is plenty of good, cheap 1095 on the market for those who want that, and there are plenty of artists for those who prefer art. To me complaining about $200 1095 is the same a complaining that the boutique super-car you want to buy has an engine from toyota, or honda, if you don't like it, go buy one from someone else.
 
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