1095 vs Stainless Steel

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roymail

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Sep 12, 2008
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Joe Talmadge has written the following about 1095 knife steel. "For knives, 1095 is sort of the "standard" carbon steel, not too expensive and performs well. It is reasonably tough and holds an edge very well. It rusts easily. This is a simple steel, which contains only two alloying elements: .95% carbon and .4% manganese. The various kabars are usually 1095 with a black coating."

My question is, other than the obvious differences between the two, to what commonly used stainless steel is 1095 similar in durability and edge retension?

This is not a trick question, and I don't know the answer. But, I'm sure many of you do know and I'd like to understand it better. Thanks! :)
 
Don't forget to consider the heat treat and geometry in your comparison. 1095 can vary based on how its made, as well as the compared stainless.
I don't have an exact answer, but there's more than just the steel to consider.
 
roymail said:
Joe Talmadge has written the following about 1095 knife steel. "For knives, 1095 is sort of the "standard" carbon steel, not too expensive and performs well. It is reasonably tough and holds an edge very well. It rusts easily. This is a simple steel, which contains only two alloying elements: .95% carbon and .4% manganese. The various kabars are usually 1095 with a black coating."

My question is, other than the obvious differences between the two, to what commonly used stainless steel is 1095 similar in durability and edge retension?

This is not a trick question, and I don't know the answer. But, I'm sure many of you do know and I'd like to understand it better. Thanks! :)
Click to expand...


For edge retention 1095 is similar to AUS8.

I find 1095 to be superior in edge retention compared to Sandvik 13C26, but it takes the same ultra fine edge as 13C26.

I don't know what stainless compares to 1095 in toughness.
 
Thanks guys for the replies and information.

What prompted this question is my grandmothers butcher knife. I found it recently in the back of a drawer greatly worn, dull and rusty. I cleaned it up and sharpened it. This sucker took an edge like crazy and is one of the sharpest knifes I have now. I can see why she used it so much. Great metal in that old blade. I'm assuming it 1095. Although the wood handles are in bad shape from too much water, lots of use and lack of proper care, this butcher knife looks similar to an Old Hickory.

Thanks for reading, and appreciate the help. :D
 
The huge difference is that carbon cuts so much better in the real world compared to cheap or even mid level stainless and it cuts better dull or sharp . Personally I have started leaning toward tool steels of the non stainless nature.
 
I just found a rusty Old Hickory at my Mom's place. I wrapped the blade with a paper towel, poured some white vinegar over it, and wait about 20 minutes. Washed that off, and the rust was gone. The knife is pitted, the handle a bit dry, but in good shape.
Knife corrosion is overblown, IMO. At home people want to walk away from a dirty knife, put their knives in the dishwasher, and still have it shiny and new. Most people don't want to have to do anything but use a tool, and be done with it.
Let a carbon steel knife develop a patina, and that is your rust inhibitor, and it will have character, and still take an edge.
 
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knarfeng said:
For edge retention 1095 is similar to AUS8.

I find 1095 to be superior in edge retention compared to Sandvik 13C26, but it takes the same ultra fine edge as 13C26.

I don't know what stainless compares to 1095 in toughness.
Click to expand...

I've used the following stainless steel:

1.4116 (Krupp 416)
420J
420HC
440A
440B
440C
AUS6
AUS8
ATS34
12C27
12C27MOD
13C26
Gerber's mystery steel (LOL)
Case's stainless (can't remember what it is)

Out of that bunch, only 440C and ATS34 seem to hold an edge as good or better than 1095.

1095 is tremendously easier to sharpen than either of those two steels.

I also agree that it will take an ultra fine edge, as good or better than 13C26 and 12C27 (the two best stainless steels for an super sharp, fine edge, IMO).

Of course, it absolutely depends on the heat treat. 1095 with a poor HT isn't going to retain an edge like any of the listed steels with a stellar HT.

I've got factory knives in 1095 and custom knives in 1095. It's my favorite steel. I have no problems with corrosion and I don't baby my blades. After use, they get wiped with a dry rag and put away. Sometimes they get a swipe with an oily rag, usually not.

I'd like to find a good one hand folder in 1095 for a good price.
 
How about H-1. I'm no steel or sharpening expert but I think they both sharpen easily to fine edge (for me), hold a decent edge and are very tough.

Paul
 
roymail said:
Joe Talmadge has written the following about 1095 knife steel. "For knives, 1095 is sort of the "standard" carbon steel, not too expensive and performs well. It is reasonably tough and holds an edge very well. It rusts easily. This is a simple steel, which contains only two alloying elements: .95% carbon and .4% manganese. The various kabars are usually 1095 with a black coating."

My question is, other than the obvious differences between the two, to what commonly used stainless steel is 1095 similar in durability and edge retension?

This is not a trick question, and I don't know the answer. But, I'm sure many of you do know and I'd like to understand it better. Thanks! :)
Click to expand...

Here my test results:

http://playground.sun.com/~vasya/Manila-Rope-Results.html

Average 1095 will be way better then average stainless (154CM or Sandvic or 420HC or CPM S30V etc...).

Best stainless - ZDP189 or CTS-XHP or COS-3 will be just a little bit better then best (heat treated by pro) 1095.

So if you are talking about production not expensive knives 1095 will be better in edge holding then "stainless".

Thanks, Vassili.
 
cramsey3006 said:
Out of that bunch, only 440C and ATS34 seem to hold an edge as good or better than 1095.

1095 is tremendously easier to sharpen than either of those two steels.

I also agree that it will take an ultra fine edge, as good or better than 13C26 and 12C27 (the two best stainless steels for an super sharp, fine edge, IMO).
Click to expand...

cramsey3006, thanks for all the info and comparisons. I agree that the 1095 is easy to sharpen and seems to maintain a fine edge better than most stainless blades.
 
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I've got Kershaw's in 13c26 and Mora's in 12c27 and 1095, among other knives. They will take an absolutely wicked sharp edge, like 1095 does, but they just don't hold up to use like 1095.

I read somewhere (that I can't find now) that Kershaw runs it's 13c26 around 55RC which would partially explain that.

Mora runs its 12c27 at 57-59RC and it will stay sharp much longer than the Kershaw will. Mora's 1095 is 58-59 RC and it stay sharp even longer and touches up easier than it's 12c27 counterpart.

When my 1095 knives need a touch up, a couple of strokes across my Work Sharp and fine grit belt and they are hair popping again. Can't beat that. :thumbup:
 
Just a little comment on toughness comparisons between 1095 and stainless alloys:

S30v, 154cm and D-2 all charpy between 20-30 foot pounds in their normal hardness ranges (roughly 58-60 hrc). 1095 needs to be hardened to ~64 HRC in order to be similarly brittle.

If you temper 1095 around 58-60 it's roughly 50% tougher than S30v at 58-60 and twice as tough as 154cm and D2 at 58-60.
 
Mmm... just another reason to love 1095. :thumbup:

I'll have to say though, I've never chipped a D2 blade. I've had a couple of kabar's in D2 and beat on them pretty good. Kabar does have it's heat treat down, regardless of the steel. :thumbup:
 
cramsey3006 said:
Mmm... just another reason to love 1095. :thumbup:

I'll have to say though, I've never chipped a D2 blade. I've had a couple of kabar's in D2 and beat on them pretty good. Kabar does have it's heat treat down, regardless of the steel. :thumbup:
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I agree with you. D2, 154cm, S30v -- all of them are good steels. None of them are particularly brittle at ~60HRC with a good HT.

All I wanted to say was that 1095 is really a heck of a lot tougher at 60HRC than most people think. Probably overkill-tough for most people's needs; and if you want to push the envolope on the HT and bring 1095 up to 64HRC you can still have a blade that's roughly as tough as s30v at 60HRC -- and has similar edge-holding, and is easier to sharpen. 1095 is about twice as tough as ZDP-189 when both of them are at 64HRC; and while it isn't as wear resistant -- you can see that it's almost as good in edge retention tests provided that you don't let it rust.
 
hkpokes_you said:
Just a little comment on toughness comparisons between 1095 and stainless alloys:

S30v, 154cm and D-2 all charpy between 20-30 foot pounds in their normal hardness ranges (roughly 58-60 hrc). 1095 needs to be hardened to ~64 HRC in order to be similarly brittle.

If you temper 1095 around 58-60 it's roughly 50% tougher than S30v at 58-60 and twice as tough as 154cm and D2 at 58-60.
Click to expand...

Can you explin those numbers - 20-30 foot pounds?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
hkpokes_you said:
Just a little comment on toughness comparisons between 1095 and stainless alloys:

S30v, 154cm and D-2 all charpy between 20-30 foot pounds in their normal hardness ranges (roughly 58-60 hrc). 1095 needs to be hardened to ~64 HRC in order to be similarly brittle.

If you temper 1095 around 58-60 it's roughly 50% tougher than S30v at 58-60 and twice as tough as 154cm and D2 at 58-60.
Click to expand...

But, with N690 colbat will be a different story!?
 
I have some kitchen knives in high carbon steel, 440C, and a Spyderco Yang in VG10. The carbon steel knives seem to hold an edge about as well as the 440C (old Gerbers), but the VG10 is clearly much better at edge holding. I have an old Case butcher knife that I use for heavy cutting involving bone, lobster shells, and similar tasks. I wouldn't use a stainless blade for that.
 
cramsey3006 said:
Out of that bunch, only 440C and ATS34 seem to hold an edge as good or better than 1095.

1095 is tremendously easier to sharpen than either of those two steels.

I also agree that it will take an ultra fine edge, as good or better than 13C26 and 12C27 (the two best stainless steels for an super sharp, fine edge, IMO).
Click to expand...

Yes. AUS8 is just below 440C in edge retention. I find 1095 to be about the same as AUS8 if both are hardened to about the same Rockwell.

mossyhorn said:
I think n690 cobalt stainless steel is pretty close.
Click to expand...

N690 holds an edge much better than 1095. N690 is very similar to 154CM or VG10 in edge retention.

RelativeRetentions-2.jpg
 
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