12t forge press?

S

squigly1965

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Jan 6, 2010
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I'm looking at a 12t forge press from Coal Iron Works. Found a few videos on it.


Guess I'm asking if anyone has experience with them and their products. It would be my first press. The size seems right for my shop and I'm not large volume so feel it would fit well overall.


Thanks for your time


Chris
 
Yep, I've got (edit: advertised as 12 ton, but only 8 ton due to 3" cylinder and 2250 psi max pressure) and am very happy with it. It fits my needs better than any other press I've found. It will forge just like the videos show. It would be slower than a 20 ton press which has perhaps 6"X6" dies. The working surface of the 12 ton dies are around 1.5"X3". The plate is 5 inches, but the die itself is only 3" wide.

My needs were a press I could move outside to work, then back inside for storage. I might leave it outside for a couple of days when using it every day by throwing a cover (tarp, BBQ grill cover, etc) over it. So far, I'm very happy with the press. I did mod the die holder from bolts to a quick change but that's easy.
 
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How long have you had yours for? how often do you use it and for how long?
I guess I’m wondering what kind of duty cycle it has. I probably wouldn’t use it excessively everyday. But may have some 3-4 day weekends that might lean on it.
 
I've only had it a few weeks, but have used it 3 to 4 hrs straight before I get too tired. Understand, when using a press there are times when the steel is in the forge for 5 to 15 minutes where the press is resting. Unless you plan to have 2 or 3 folks, and a couple or 3 forges going at once I don't think there will be a problem with the duty cycle.
 
I've owned the 12 ton for about 2 months. I'm a very mild/infrequent user.
The power is great. It does what I ask of it.

I have mine on a rolling cart, and I can easily take it from inside to outside, which is a big win for me.

Note that the H-frame permits only straight-in access, as opposed to coming in from the side. This is perhaps the only reasonable limitation I've run into. For example, when drawing out an axe head, you may not be able to draw them out in the direction you want without some clever solutions.
 
FunkCoaster said:
I've owned the 12 ton for about 2 months. I'm a very mild/infrequent user. The power is great. It does what I ask of it.
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I'd be interested to know what type of 12 ton press do you have? did you build it, or is it a commercial unit? What size is the cylinder and what is max pressure used?
 
Mine is the Coal Iron Works 12 ton press. To avoid coming across as an ad, I'll suggest using their site for all specifications.
I haven't stressed it too hard, but I plan to try some 1.5 inch diameter 4140 to make an axe. I don't expect it to be a problem, given the YouTubery I've seen so far.
 
Their site doesn't have much info on the specs for the 12 ton press. Doesn't say what size ram, or what pressure it's working at. I got my info from emailing with one of the owners, and installing a pressure gauge on my 12 ton press. It's a 3" ram at a "spec'd" 2500 psi which is 9 tons. My press from factory was set at 2250 psi for 8 tons. A 3.5" bore cylinder at 2500 psi will give the advertised 12 tons.

With that said, let me say I do like my press - it's amazing what the 8 tons will do in forging. The small 1.5" wide dies allow the 8 tons to do a good job. I have adjusted the pressure up to 2800 psi just for testing and it does seem like the 10 tons do help a bit. I have no problem recommending the Coal Iron 12 ton mini press. Just a note, the 12 ton and 16 ton both use the same 2 stage hydraulic pump turning at 1750 rpm for around 5.5 to 6.6 GPM flow at low pressure. The 16+ ton press uses the same pump but turning at 3450 rpm for the full 11 (or 13) GPM flow rate to allow the 4" bore cylinder to operate at the fast 4 IPS travel speed.
 
Which 12 ton press do you have? Is it the Coal Iron 12 ton mini press? They work really good for a 9 ton press - 3" cylinder at 2550 psi.

if so perhaps the most popular way to to use a base like for the normal dies, then well an "L" bracket on the ends to slide the dies into. The L bracket should have a stop on back side so the dies can only slide in so far, Take a look at the photo on post #15 and you'll see the start of my bracket. I welded direct to the press, but other folks have used the base I mentioned.

widening a billet with press?

Hello ya'll,. Let's see if this is the way to post a new thread. When working a billet with the press I have no problem making it longer. Even with flatting dies it gets longer, but not much wider. I start with a 3/4" square billet, drawing with flatting die it might grow to 1" wide, but...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com

I have since put pins in front so the dies don't slide out the front during use.
 
I added a pressure gauge so I could see what the press was actually doing. The Coal Iron 12 ton press is designed to operate at 9 ton with the 3" cylinder at 2550 psi. My "12 ton" press operated only operated at 2250 psi which gives 8 ton. I think the press was designed with a 3.5" cylinder, but those proved more expensive so they decided to go with the 3", which operates at a bit faster ram speed, but only 75% of advertised tonnage.

The 9 ton as it's designed works pretty darn good due to the narrow dies it uses which are only 1.5" wide. I changed to a 4" cylinder ($133 shipped) which allows the full 12 ton at 2,000 psi pressure. The downside is the ram speed is a bit slower, but don't really notice the difference in use.

Here's a good site to calculate pressure, depending on bore size and PSI. Of course, you'll need to divide the result by 2,000 to get tons.
 
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Is that normal for press manufacturers to over report their tonnage? Or is it kind of like a 2x4 not really being 2”x4”? Seems quite misleading to advertise 12 tons when it’s only getting 8-9 tons.
 
ER Sheldon said:
Is that normal for press manufacturers to over report their tonnage?
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Nope, I don't think it's normal at all to over report tonnage, it's too easy to check. Any "good" press should have a pressure gauge, but since they're doing everything they can to keep costs down on their presses, especially the entry level 12 ton press a pressure gauge isn't included. That would cost at least $15 in materials to add the pressure gauge (Tee 'n Gauge). It's easy to look at cylinder size, what pressure the press max's out to and you then know the tons. Coal Iron's 16 ton and 25 ton all are at reported tonnage, based on cylinder size and reported operating pressure of 2550 psi range. My press just wasn't adjusted correctly from factory is the reason it was 8 tons. Control valve pressure relief was set at 2250 psi rather than spec'd 2550 psi, a simple mistake they would never really admit to.

As mentioned before, the 12 ton press was designed and first press used a 3.5" cylinder which gave the 12 ton. Due to "sourcing" problems, which I interpreted to be cost they switched to a 3" cylinder since it worked pretty good. AND, I expect the general market for a 12 ton mini press are like me, didn't know squat about presses before I got this press and started learning about them. They're darn easy to build, especially with an "H" frame using angle iron for supports.

If a person didn't wish to build his own press, I'd have no problem recommending the Coal Iron 12 ton press as a small press with the understanding it is only a 9 ton press.
 
Just one added note:
Tonnage is given as calculated tonnage. It is a simple math equation of the pressure and cylinder size. It would be a lovely world if theoretical tonnage equaled developed tonnage. The actual pressure delivered at the dies is likely about 80% of the theoretical tonnage. There are so many things that drop pressure - hose sizes, fitting sizes and shapes ,control valve orifices and type, distance from pump to cylinder, press shape/frame type, etc.
 
Yep, and another aspect is is the speed of the ram when it's going down, or that's what I keep getting told by different folks.

edit: Got to thinking and flowing pressure drop only affects the ram speed and doesn't really factor into lowering tons of a press. Regardless of flowing pressure drop, the final "squish" with full pressure doesn't require much flow so the pressure will still build to max. Then the tons is calculated with (psi X area of cylinder bore)/2,000 to get tons.

As I've said many times before, I am NOT that experienced in hydraulic forging presses to really know "real" answers.

Later
 
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