Codger_64
Moderator
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2004
- Messages
- 61,721
The Schrade Old Timer 165OT Woodsman is my favorite classic Schrade pattern. The OT version was first introduced in 1967 and produced continuously for twenty four years, nearly a quarter of a century. It was produced for six years with the Schrade Walden stamp (1967-73), then for eighteen in with the Schrade tangstamp (1974-91). (Schrade moved to Ellenville, New York circa 1958, but the company name and stamp did not change until mid 1973).
The Woodsman has brown sawcut delrin handles held to the full tang by three nickle silver flat head rivets, and a 1 1/8" nickle silver Old Timer shield. A two piece pinned brass contoured guard seperates the handle from the 4 5/8" sabre ground 1095 carbon steel blade. It weighs in at 8.8 ounces, a full half pound without the sheath. A really stiff blade, the bladestock is nearly 3/16" thick, and remains nearly full thickness from the butt of the exposed full tang to within 1/2" of the tip, where the sabre grind rises to the point.
There are some small distinctions between the Walden knives and the later ones from Ellenville. These are relatively minor engineering changes, but help to distinguish the chronology of production.
Earliest production was not marked with a "PAT. PEND." tangstamp or blade etch as was the earlier introduced 15OT Deerslayer, at least not that I have seen. Perhaps this led to some complications with production and stocking the 15OT's. The 165's were, however, serialized. So far, the earliest serial number I have seen is #9,xxx. The first tangstamps were parallel to the blade on blade left with SCHRADE over WALDEN over 165. The serial number was imprinted on the left tang parallel to the guard.
Sometime after serial #18,xxx, the tangstamp was moved to blade right and then the serial numbers were discontinued. Later Ellenville blades all have the tangstamp on blade right and as far as I have seen, were not serialized. Interestingly, I have never seen the "OT designation added to the "165" on a tangstamp, but the Uncle Henry'd do have the "UH" designation added.
The Walden knives have a slightly convex curved front edge on the lower guard matching the concave curve on the back edge for finger relief. Ellenville knives do not. The front edge is left flat, saving a casting detail, or machining step.
Only four sheath designs have been found so far, not really enough of a sampling to establish an accurate chronology. One used in 1969-70 was a tubular sheath with long belt hanger, sewn with four rivets added. Another is a basketweave tooled sheath, flat sewn. This one could be aftermarket. And an early one, perhaps the earliest, flatsewn with a short belthanger, and a rivet at each side of the throat. The most common, naturally is the later flatsewn with a third ply added to the center protecting the stitching from the blade. Then the stone pocket sheaths, original issue with the 160OT Mountain Lion (1990-95) and the 153UH (1974-04) appear with the later 165OT's, though these may be replacement sheaths.
Early success of the 165OT inspired Schrade to issue an Uncle Henry version of the knife. The UH version, named the Prospector, made a short two year production run at Walden (1969-70) and was revived in 1994 for a four year run in Ellenville, retiring again after 1997. Later, the pattern was produced for limited editions and private issues from time to time.
The differences between the first and second issue knives are minor. One unique feature does stand out on the Walden issue, besides the obvious tangstamps and serial numbers. The top of the tang has eight thumb rest grooves.
Other than the thumb rest grooves on the first issue, the 165UH bore all of the trademark features of it's Old Timer brother with the following exceptions. Staglon replaced the sawcut delrin, the shield was brass with the Uncle Henry signature the handle rivets were brass, and the UH designation was added to the 165 tangstamp.
My own interest in these knives, though discontinued ten years now and made by a company no longer existing, began more than thirty years ago when I purchased one for my hunting and camping adventures. The serpentine handle and heft have become so familiar that it is difficult to use and carry another pattern. The blade sweep is etched in my memory so that I can use it in near total darkness without loosing blood. I'll continue my quest to dig out obscure facts and details on the 165's. Not that anyone cares, but I find it personally interesting.
Any corrections and additions to this missive are expected and most welcomed!
Codger
The Woodsman has brown sawcut delrin handles held to the full tang by three nickle silver flat head rivets, and a 1 1/8" nickle silver Old Timer shield. A two piece pinned brass contoured guard seperates the handle from the 4 5/8" sabre ground 1095 carbon steel blade. It weighs in at 8.8 ounces, a full half pound without the sheath. A really stiff blade, the bladestock is nearly 3/16" thick, and remains nearly full thickness from the butt of the exposed full tang to within 1/2" of the tip, where the sabre grind rises to the point.
There are some small distinctions between the Walden knives and the later ones from Ellenville. These are relatively minor engineering changes, but help to distinguish the chronology of production.
Earliest production was not marked with a "PAT. PEND." tangstamp or blade etch as was the earlier introduced 15OT Deerslayer, at least not that I have seen. Perhaps this led to some complications with production and stocking the 15OT's. The 165's were, however, serialized. So far, the earliest serial number I have seen is #9,xxx. The first tangstamps were parallel to the blade on blade left with SCHRADE over WALDEN over 165. The serial number was imprinted on the left tang parallel to the guard.
Sometime after serial #18,xxx, the tangstamp was moved to blade right and then the serial numbers were discontinued. Later Ellenville blades all have the tangstamp on blade right and as far as I have seen, were not serialized. Interestingly, I have never seen the "OT designation added to the "165" on a tangstamp, but the Uncle Henry'd do have the "UH" designation added.
The Walden knives have a slightly convex curved front edge on the lower guard matching the concave curve on the back edge for finger relief. Ellenville knives do not. The front edge is left flat, saving a casting detail, or machining step.
Only four sheath designs have been found so far, not really enough of a sampling to establish an accurate chronology. One used in 1969-70 was a tubular sheath with long belt hanger, sewn with four rivets added. Another is a basketweave tooled sheath, flat sewn. This one could be aftermarket. And an early one, perhaps the earliest, flatsewn with a short belthanger, and a rivet at each side of the throat. The most common, naturally is the later flatsewn with a third ply added to the center protecting the stitching from the blade. Then the stone pocket sheaths, original issue with the 160OT Mountain Lion (1990-95) and the 153UH (1974-04) appear with the later 165OT's, though these may be replacement sheaths.
Early success of the 165OT inspired Schrade to issue an Uncle Henry version of the knife. The UH version, named the Prospector, made a short two year production run at Walden (1969-70) and was revived in 1994 for a four year run in Ellenville, retiring again after 1997. Later, the pattern was produced for limited editions and private issues from time to time.
The differences between the first and second issue knives are minor. One unique feature does stand out on the Walden issue, besides the obvious tangstamps and serial numbers. The top of the tang has eight thumb rest grooves.
Other than the thumb rest grooves on the first issue, the 165UH bore all of the trademark features of it's Old Timer brother with the following exceptions. Staglon replaced the sawcut delrin, the shield was brass with the Uncle Henry signature the handle rivets were brass, and the UH designation was added to the 165 tangstamp.
My own interest in these knives, though discontinued ten years now and made by a company no longer existing, began more than thirty years ago when I purchased one for my hunting and camping adventures. The serpentine handle and heft have become so familiar that it is difficult to use and carry another pattern. The blade sweep is etched in my memory so that I can use it in near total darkness without loosing blood. I'll continue my quest to dig out obscure facts and details on the 165's. Not that anyone cares, but I find it personally interesting.
Any corrections and additions to this missive are expected and most welcomed!
Codger
I'll also do a geiger counter test for radioactivity to see if its use over long term will have any effects.
