18% tungsten steel paper cutting blades

David Schott

David Schott

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Sep 27, 2004
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At my work, they use industrial cutting machines to cut the bindings off bound periodicals and books for scanning. These machines use large 18" long by 2" wide cutting blades that are nearly 3/8" thick. They pay some absurd amount for these blades and after a while they cannot be sharpened again to fit the machine and they discard the blades which are still nearly 2" wide.

How can i figure out what kind of steel this is? Its marked 18% tungsten, but i havent found any steels so far that match that. Im mainly trying to figure out if it has any worth as a knife blade. They obviously are built to withstand the hydraulic pressure of the cutters and must be built for extreme wear resistence as they cut hundreds of thousands of sheets of paper and bindings a day and are only sharpened monthly.

My fear is that they might be great for paper but too brittle for blades.

Anyone have any insight into what cutter blades are usually made from?
All i can find listed are:
Steel, tool, high speed, AISI T1, 18 percent tungsten, 4 percent chromium, 1 percent vanadium, UNS T12001
ASTM A600


08-820
Steel, tool, high speed, AISI T2, 18 percent tungsten, 4 percent chromium, 2 percent vanadium, UNS T12002
ASTM A600


08-830
Steel, tool, high speed, AISI T4, 18 percent tungsten, 4 percent chromium, 1 percent vanadium, 5 percent cobalt, UNS T12004
ASTM A600


08-840
Steel, tool, high speed, AISI T5, 18 percent tungsten, 4 percent chrominum, 0.8 percent carbon, 7-9 percent cobalt, 2 percent vanadium, UNS T12005.
ASTM A600
 
Could be any of those . It's only for knife makers who REALLY like to grind !!!
 
Can i use it, though? Will it be brittle? They already will have a SCREAMING edge on them. Chisel ground, though :) Im thinking of making some nice chisel ground slicers by simply grinding in a belly and tip at the same bevel as exists.

From what i've read, i can grid as much as i want since this stuff wont temper until almost 1000 degrees??? I know i can't effectively heat treat the stuff since it seems to harden way up at like 2400 degrees? My oven wont go that high.

Due to the thickness, i was thinking they'd make nice little stout neck knives with high RC. Hoping the thickness would offset any brittleness...

Im not looking forward to figuring out if i can drill this stuff or seeing how rough it is to grind....but hey, its free steel thats used in high yield cutting applications, so id be crazy to say no!

Plus i can probably get at least 1-2 bars of this a month if all goes as planned.
 
sounds like it would make good knif esteel.. aslong as you kept the knfie short and put a single grind on it like a scandinavian knife.
but i wouldnt try to maek a truck spring from it..
 
I'd concider doing some company research on the source of the blades, if you can. Contact them and explain to them you want to make knives from the old blades and need to know what the composition is so that you can anneal and re heat treat.
 
i sure will try. Ive been reading on the stuff and am hoping its all pre-ht since its already in use in cutting applications. I should be able to grind it full bore and not ruin temper since its designed for high heat and speed applications.

I will inqure, get a piece, and see how grinding goes. Worst case scenario it might be a great platen paterial.
 
TikTok,
Send me a small piece and I'll test it and give you the numbers on it. Email me if interested.
Matt Doyle
 
I think you can forget about grinding it in it's hardened state. Sounds like a super high speed steel. I've tried making blades from M4, and it's about as difficult to grind annealed as O1 is hardened. :eek:
I just checked my copy of "Tool Steels" and T1, T2, T3, T4,T5, and T9 all have 18% tungsten. Send a piece of it to Matt Doyle, then you'll know what it is.
The T series steels I mentioned only have .75-.80 carbon, so they shouldn't be as difficult to grind as the M4.
You have an oven now, so re-heat treating shouldn't be a problem. It would be easier in my opinion than trying to grind this stuff hard.
 
I will get one and see how it bahaves and if its not marked in some way, we can get it analyzed.

I dont think ill be able to do any HT on this stuff at all. All the spec sheets ive seen on the t-series stuff states hardening at 2300 degrees+ My over wont really get that high. I could do it in the forge but i wouldnt want to have to soak at any length at temps that high with reliability.

I will keep this thread posted with info once i acquire some of the steel and have it on-hand!
 
probaly need to be careful about lateral load. as im guessing that these cutters were cutting straight down?
 
They sure are. TONS of force. They can pushcut like 750 pages plus the carboard bindings, glue, staples, etc.
 
I have about a dozen of these blades. Mine are laminated to a softer metal though. I think mine are high speed steel.
 
Those blades are hardened T1 tool bits. You can still buy those from machine catalogs and from Crucible in various sizes.
 
Eew... Maybe try to find a local shop with a waterject cutter to split the bar laterally, and profile them for you... Heck, I'd do it even if they were annealed; that composition sounds insane to grind! Then again, maybe it's just my puny little grinder; I can't get through profiling a 3/16" D2 blade in under two or three hours...
 
If it were me I would use something else. What properties do you want in your steel? The high speed steel CPM-M4 is gaining some popularity, and has a better balance of toughness and wear resistance than other high speed steels. It can also be taken very hard with toughness that is still rather high.

Rc........Charpy C ft. lbs.
65.5.......20
63.5.......28
62.........32

If you take it down to 60 Rc you would probably get something 36 ft. lbs., but it's hard to guess.
 
Very interesting. i got some of the blades and i dont think they can be used. They are acutally almost like a san-mai configuration, and mare marked as "18% tungstun high speed inlaid steel" When i look at the bar end, i can actually see a strip of different metal at the cutting edge. This will kill my plans as this inlaid steel is not in the center of the bar but is offset since the blades are chisel ground. The only thing i can think of is a push knife that could be made from it....
 
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