2 finger ring/knuckle knife

E

exxarkun78

Joined
Aug 24, 2010
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124
I'm trying to remember the brand name of the company that you could take the measurements of 2 fingers and they would make you a small knife with a choice of like 4 or 5 tip options 2 of which were like a modified hawk bill tanto or a claw they used to advertise in tactical knives magazine if anyone remembers them help a guy out thanks


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I picked up one off the marketplace that was conveniently the right size, and I am quite happy with it. I would carry it all the time if I could be certain it was consistently legal in Southern California. Anyhow, the seller at the time mentioned that the lady who makes them occasionally takes a break for whatever reason, and her website is currently down. They are neat little knives, totally worth keeping your eyes open for the right size and blade shape.
 
Actually she sold the company several years ago (I knew her) she went by the screen name frontsight. I own several and still carry one daily in southern Cali. I believe the knife is legal concealed because it is under 2 inches. In Cali a switch blade under 2 inches is also California legal.
 
The Lady of the Blade.

Wasn't the story behind this knife about the gal that had been in some sort of assault prompting her to design the Hideaway, just that? A story. IIRC, the gentlemen who really made the knife and the knife, the backsight/end, eventually went the way of the bird and flew the coup, unfortunately closed shop, having issues meeting demand, inconsistent work that was farmed out, and accounting problems (not of the theft sort).

Good story which provided some insight to the other hurdles a small knife maker encounter in pursuit of a successful venture from knife crafts.
 
I had one of those on my whitewater PFD. I laid my vest in the sun during a break and the Kydex sheath got warm and loose and the knife fell out into the river when I put my PFD on. I was upset to say the least.--KV
 
deltaunit said:
Actually she sold the company several years ago (I knew her) she went by the screen name frontsight. I own several and still carry one daily in southern Cali. I believe the knife is legal concealed because it is under 2 inches. In Cali a switch blade under 2 inches is also California legal.
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Not that you or anyone asked, but when I see erroneous information posted regarding California's knife laws I feel compelled to post.

It is illegal to carry concealed ANY fixed-blade of ANY size in California. There is no exception in that law for fixed-blades with blades under 2". Here is how the California penal code defines fixed-blades, there is no mention of blade length- http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=16470.&highlight=true&keyword=dagger

And here is the law regarding the concealed carry of fixed-blades, again, no mention of size- http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=21310.&highlight=true&keyword=dagger

Likewise, possession of "knuckle knives" is also completely illegal in California. Whether or not a knife is considered a knuckle knife in California will be determined by the cop on the street, the prosecutor, the judge, the jury, and perhaps the appeals judges.

If a cop considers a knife to be a knuckle knife, they can arrest you. If a the prosecutor believes that the knife is designed to be gripped with ones fingers passing through a metal ring (but not exclusively metal), or, that it is merely possible to grip the knife in such a manner, then they can and will charge it as a knuckle knife.

If a person carrying such a knife explains to a cop that the knife is designed to be gripped with ones fingers passing through any form of ring or guard that completely encompasses ones finger(s), then that statement can be used by a prosecutor to prove in court that the person knew they were carrying a knuckle knife. And such a statement would increase the chances of conviction.

I've lived in California for 46 years, and my criminal attorney and I have had a lengthy discussion on this topic. There is case law in California that makes it very clear that California courts take a very dim view of people possessing "metal knuckles" of any kind. And convictions for possessing such items have been upheld by the California Appeals Court.

Bottom line- knuckle knives, metal knuckles, and composite knuckles of any kind are bad news in California. People go to jail over them.

Getting caught carrying a concealed fixed-blade is a whole other nightmare in California. It is an offense that can be charged as a felony. And people go to jail for it all the time.
 
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killgar said:
Not that you or anyone asked, but when I see erroneous information posted regarding California's knife laws I feel compelled to post.

It is illegal to carry concealed ANY fixed-blade of ANY size in California. There is no exception in that law for fixed-blades with blades under 2". Here is how the California penal code defines fixed-blades, there is no mention of blade length- http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=16470.&highlight=true&keyword=dagger

And here is the law regarding the concealed carry of fixed-blades, again, no mention of size- http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=21310.&highlight=true&keyword=dagger

Likewise, possession of "knuckle knives" is also completely illegal in California. Whether or not a knife is considered a knuckle knife in California will be determined by the cop on the street, the prosecutor, the judge, the jury, and perhaps the appeals judges.

If a cop considers a knife to be a knuckle knife, they can arrest you. If a the prosecutor believes that the knife is designed to be gripped with ones fingers passing through a metal ring (but not exclusively metal), or, that it is merely possible to grip the knife in such a manner, then they can and will charge it as a knuckle knife.

If a person carrying such a knife explains to a cop that the knife is designed to be gripped with ones fingers passing through any form of ring or guard that completely encompasses ones finger(s), then that statement can be used by a prosecutor to prove in court that the person knew they were carrying a knuckle knife. And such a statement would increase the chances of conviction.

I've lived in California for 46 years, and my criminal attorney and I have had a lengthy discussion on this topic. There is case law in California that makes it very clear that California courts take a very dim view of people possessing "metal knuckles" of any kind. And convictions for possessing such items have been upheld by the California Appeals Court.

Bottom line- knuckle knives, metal knuckles, and composite knuckles of any kind are bad news in California. People go to jail over them.

Getting caught carrying a concealed fixed-blade is a whole other nightmare in California. It is an offense that can be charged as a felony. And people go to jail for it all the time.
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Well there was a case in Ca where a guy carried a knife concealed and it was determined to be legal.

How so?

It is illegal to conceal "dirk and daggers" in order to prevent surprise stabbings. While most knives are able to stab and thus would be illegal to carry concealed the defendants knife was a (looooooong!) bread knife. It didn't have a pointed tip and was found too flexible to stab anything. Lucky dude!
Still, while there seem to be exceptions a Leo and a prosecutor might not know about them or still want a judge and jury to determine how your particular knife would be classified. So basically don't risk it. But if you do, me and probably a few others will be grateful for you testing the law and making the meaning of those ambiguous legal texts more clear.

I wonder why that case hasn't caused any makers to create fixed knife designs which allow legally concealed carry in Ca? Maybe because we don't know yet if just wobbly or just a rounded tip would be sufficient or if it has to be both?
 
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Jens Schuetz said:
Well there was a case in Ca where a guy carried a knife concealed and it was determined to be legal.

How so?

It is illegal to conceal "dirk and daggers" in order to prevent surprise stabbings. While most knives are able to stab and thus would be illegal to carry concealed the defendants knife was a (looooooong!) bread knife. It didn't have a pointed tip and was found too flexible to stab anything. Lucky dude!
Still, while there seem to be exceptions a Leo and a prosecutor might not know about them or still want a judge and jury to determine how your particular knife would be classified. So basically don't risk it. But if you do, me and probably a few others will be grateful for you testing the law and making the meaning those ambiguous legal texts more clear.

I wonder why that case hasn't caused any makers to create fixed knife designs which allow legally concealed carry in Ca? Maybe because we don't know yet if just wobbly or just a rounded tip would be sufficient or if it has to be both?
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Yes, you are correct about the "bread knife" case. But there's a big difference between a flexible bread knife with a round tip, and the knife being discussed here. My statement was not intended to include flexible bread knives with rounded tips ;). It is impossible to make a statement regarding the law that includes every possible facet of the law and every related case law. Sometimes for the sake of brevity, and to make the relevant point, abbreviated generalizations are required.

And it should be noted that case law does not provide immunity from arrest, or prosecution, or conviction. Not every cop is knowledgeable about case law. So it would still be very possible for a person to be arrested for carrying a concealed bread knife (or a knife with no point). And prosecutors often like to challenge case law in pursuit of a conviction.

Testing the law is never a good idea. Unless people enjoy spending time in jail, spending thousands of dollars on attorney's fees, losing their job, and facing the possibility of having their conviction upheld. Testing the law is like gambling in a Vegas casino, the house wins far more often than not, and that means you lose.
 
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100% agree and tried to communicate some of your points already but you have more knowledge and a better way with words. :-)
 
Jens Schuetz said:
100% agree and tried to communicate some of your points already but you have more knowledge and a better way with words. :-)
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It never hurts to have someone like yourself who is knowledgeable on California knife laws to "proof read" my posts and correct any mistakes I might make, and/or fill in any discrepancies. I'm certainly capable of making an error.

It's good to have someone keeping me on my toes :).
 
killgar said:
It never hurts to have someone like yourself who is knowledgeable on California knife laws to "proof read" my posts and correct any mistakes I might make, and/or fill in any discrepancies. I'm certainly capable of making an error.

It's good to have someone keeping me on my toes :).
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Thanks killgar. You are giving me too much credit. Usually I just ask questions instead of answering them, trying to make sense of laws. While they are vague, probably to be used against as many unsuspecting people as possible if needed, I'm interested in getting concrete answers as in this is allowed and this isn't.
 
I read the article and this is why a business absolutely cannot run off preorder funds, I've seen this a bunch of times and it doesn't go well. Looks like he was still taking orders in 2016 but his website... "account suspended due to non-payment". Youch.
 
Icehawk said:
I read the article and this is why a business absolutely cannot run off preorder funds, I've seen this a bunch of times and it doesn't go well. Looks like he was still taking orders in 2016 but his website... "account suspended due to non-payment". Youch.
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That's what I was trying to decipher from the article. They kept saying they couldn't keep up with the demand and yadda yadda I was like... "well why not?" lol it's just messages and interest. Now I know... because people were giving them money and they were taking orders before they had something to ship out.
 
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