2 Ton Epoxy question

D

DaQo'tah Forge

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Hi This is DaQo'tah

First some review...
I had been useing a glue called J.B.Weld on my very first knives and was happy with it. Then one day last week I was sanding down the oak handle of a blade, when I sanded too deep and hit the glue.

Now the JB Weld is colored dark gray, so it shows up on the knife, and I hated it!.

I decided to change types of glue to a one that would be a clear color, just incase I hit it again while sanding.

I saw some "2 Ton Epoxy" at Walmart so I got some. I glued my latest knife with it, so far so good.

Then I noticed that I had forgot to cut the tang shorter before I made the handle for the knife. I knew I had to cut the oak off the tang so I went out to my shop to use the bandsaw.

Now this is a "hidden tang" handle we are talking about, and I had glued the oak onto the tang at about 9:00 in the morning. I started to cut it off at about 7:00 that night.

The oak popped free of the glue very easly. The glue did seem very hard around the steel of the tang, almost like a glass. But there didnt seem to be any trouble at all to bend the oak and snap it free.

Now given that the glue had what I thought was plenty of time to set up and be hard, I was very suppirsed to see the oak pop off so easly.

QUESTION is 2 Ton Epoxy the wrong type for a hidden tang/oak handle?

or, would more time be needed to have a better bond?
 
DaQo'tah, 2-ton epoxy is just fine. However, you do need to remember a couple of things. First, it usually takes at least 24-hours to completely cure, and even then, it is very temperature dependent. You can expedite the curing by placing the entire project in the oven. Temperatures vary depending on the product you are using, but most will tell you to use 120F, or thereabouts. I have found that not all epoxies are of the same quality. I still use Conap and have never had a knife handle fail. I always wait 48 hours before working with the handle, just to be sure the epoxy is fully cured. I leave the entire knife in the house during that period and since the house is usually about 68 - 70F, 48 hours works well.
 
I see three potential problems.

1. Product not fully cured. You allowed it to cure for 10 hours at an unspecified temperature.

This product requires 8-16 hours at 75 deg. F for a full cure. Cure time is dependent on temperature; in approximate terms a 15 degree F drop in temperature will cut the reaction rate in half. So if you cured at 60 degrees F a full cure would take about 16-32 hours. See Devcon' pdf for more info.

2. Product not compleatly mixed.

3. Product not suited to the application. This epoxy has rather poor peal strength and limited impact resistance. To select a more suitable adhesive see devcon's chart. I would recommend devcon's 10 minute epoxy since it has about 10 times the peal strength, about twice the impact strength, slighty higher shear strength and full cure in about .75-1 hour at 75 degrees F.
 
DaQo'tah,You might try grinding a few "teeth" on your tang before the glue is processed.Also,you may want to use the BEST stuff I've found,Brownell's Accuglas Gel.I find the other Accuglas too runny. And that stuff will NEVER let go! A gunsmith and now part-time knifemaker suggested this stuff,really the best! Also,as far as the problem you have on the knife that you ground into the epoxy,try to do some inlay where the boo-boo is.Don't feel so bad-I admit to doing the same thing before.Antler,silver,or some other material is a good example of what to use,as long as it looks good when finished.I know just how you felt when you ground into the epoxy-#**&$#**!
 
okay, now this brings up another question,,,

I have heard many good things about Accuglas Gel, but that stuff is a lot of money.

I saw some Accuglas in a gun shop once here in town, but it looked like a very small amount for over $20.00

If I order some of that stuff off the web will it turn out to be enough to do a few knives,,,,or is the $20.00 amount only for one knife?
 
Oh,,,as I read the answers I have got so far,,,,I see where I might have messed up.

due to the smell, I mixed the glue in a unheated room in the basement, and then I wanted to keep pushing the blade down into the wood of the future handle, so i placed the knife on the floor, then set many books on top if the point.

so,,my guess is that there is no way I had the knife at the right temp...
 
As the second cheapest person I know, I use a light bulb as a cureing "oven" when I want to rush epoxy.
I have heard many say that the epoxy used on golf clubs was the toughest. Comments?
Lynn
 
Lynn met #1,hell I`ll carry an item around
the store for 20mins. then put it back cause
I don`t don`t want to spend the $5.00:D
You don`t Even want to know what the wife calls.
I have used the light bulb for years, hey if
it works don`t nock it. :D
 
I would only reinforce that you may have seen the Acraglas Gel--you do not want this. Too thick. Get the "liquid" form.

The quick setting epoxies tend to be a bit tricky, for me at least. They give you very little time to work before they set up.

2-Ton is used by many and should be fine. I know you are following Ed Fowler, sort of, but he uses Acraglas. If you are worried about the handle coming off with 2-Ton, a single pin wouldn't hurt. That way you have a mechanical bond, with the epoxy serving more as a sealant.

That said, you seem serious, and I know you are buying good steel. Why skimp on other materials? Your knives will only be as good as the weakest link in their construction.

John
 
To each their own,I guess! The jell is about like using butter when it's mixed, and YES,some guys prefer the thin stuff. One difficulty I admit IS getting the air bubbles worked out,and I can see where some folks would rather use the thin stuff.Price? Yeah, it's high,but not if you consider how good it is.And yes,you can do a number of knives with the small kit,which I recommend because unless you are really making a lot of knives.The AccuGlas has a shelf life.
 
Thanks everyone for all the answers and advice. I have much to think about.

Yes, Im trying to learn how to make a knife by useing Ed Fowler as my guide.

He uses that Arcaglass stuff, and Im still learning, ( so I stick to the cheap stuff), how and why he does the things he does.

I hope my next month is a little easyer on my bank book so I can try that Acraglass stuff on a knife. However my next try with the 2 Ton Epoxy will be way better, I will keep it warm...and let it set for the whole day before I monkey around with it.

I will also cut the tang in small places for the glue to hang on to better.

one more question,,whats stronger for a tang handle , J.B.Weld, or 2 Ton Epoxy?
 
Thats goning to have to be your call on which you like
best.
John ,I never said gel wasn`t any good,hell I`ve used
it for years bedin rifles untill I whent to Devcon`s
steel putty. I just like the thiner stuff better plus
you can use it as a finish:p
 
Hey Nathan. Most of the knives I do are hidden tangs and I use 2-ton Devcon epoxy for most all of them. If the knife is small, say a 3" tang, I'll use 5-min. epoxy as long as there is only one pin. Never had a problem. For the 2-ton make sure the material is clean, the temp is at least 65-70 degrees, and you let it cure over night. If you use the 5 min., it only takes 2 hrs. to fully cure. You just need to make sure you only need 5 min. because they aren't kidding.
 
DaQo'tah,

A fellow in my thread talked about using Dap wellwood contact cement for his handles. He seemed to like the product.
I have only made a few knives,so I am not the expert BUT

what I did was take my dremel tool and scribe line " Groove" all the way around the tang, and several grooves in the handle material.
I attempted to give the glue some place to stick

We look to achieve a tight fit around the handle material and the tang. SO, It seems to me that when we put a handle on we "sqeeze" out most of the epoxy. The grooves give the epoxy a little " depth"
I think epoxy needs that little bit of thickness to work well.

Thats why I think that this contact cement idea has some merit.
Its meant for tight fits.
I going to try it out and see.
Good Luck,
Jack
 
well,,,ok,,,contact cement is,,,well..I used that stuff in the kitchen,,,,you dont get a 2nd chance,,,,,when lay it down on to that type of cement,,, be ready to look at the way it landed forever...LOL....for she will not move ever again.

I am making Hidden tang knives...the handle is one piece with a hole drilled down into the oak,,,,I fill the hole with glue, then jam the tang of the knife down into it..could contact cement work for such?.....fill the hole with contact cement, then jam the tang down into it?....I have never thought of this type of glue,,,,,very interesting....something to think about
 
With contact cement you're supposed to coat both surfaces and let them cure separately before you stick em together. As soon as the tang touches the hole it will stick wether you got it in all the way or not. If you fill the hole with contact cement and put the tang in before it is dry it will never dry. Get some acraglass it is the best.
 
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