$200++ flippers from China

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"I don't have a real response to the fact that I just used my own opinions trying to state that another member was objectively incorrect with his opinions because I don't understand that my opinions don't constitute face, and then I got called out and I wish this guy would go away because he's making me look bad."

"lmao" is right.

Like trying to argue with a 7 year old that continually says "nuh uh you did". You've pointed out nothing, thriving at finger pointing while contributing zilch, keep avoiding those facts, ya hear.
 
Spyderco makes most of their stuff overseas, including things like the Spydiechef and all of their designer collaborations.
Yes, their budget lines are made in China. Their other lines are made in the USA and "overseas". Unfortunately, it's very difficult to compete without a certain amount of overseas manufacturing and it makes sense for knives that are destined for the European market as well.
 
Like trying to argue with a 7 year old that continually says "nuh uh you did". You've pointed out nothing, thriving at finger pointing while contributing zilch, keep avoiding those facts, ya hear.

Heh, nevermind.
 
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No evidence of human involvement? There is your human involvement. If anything, humans are MORE involved because labor is cheaper so they can do such. Show me any American manufacturers that use hand rubbed blades, or hand ground blades, or hand ANYTHING for a reasonable price.

And you stick to junky emersons huh, good for you. Talk about soul less knives. Pretty sure I could make a knife out of playdoh that wouldn't have as many issues. And marfione? Are you seriously trolling us too? Someone known to copy designs and call them his own. He follows "Chinese practices" more than most Chinese brands.

Nooooo, this emotional response (and personal attack) to someone who wasn't even talking to you wasn't a big alligator tear-filled tirade towards them and their personal opinions at all. LOL
 
A Chinese knife company that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread is Artisan Cutlery.

Their designs are attractive and innovative (and even a bit radical and "out there," in some cases). I own 5 of their sub-$100 4" long D2 steel blade and G10/CF/SS models -- the Shark, Zumwalt, Hornet, Waistline and Dragonfly.

They make $100-$300 versions of these knives and other models using M390, S35VN and Damascus blade steel, Ti handles in different colors and CF scale material which are as good as anything made in the US in terms of construction and, in many ways, superior in design. Check them out by clicking on the link provided above, if you haven't heard of them below.

BTW, I own over 200 folders (and a few fixed blades). I haven't done an exact count but I believe most of these knives are made in the USA. Most of the Chinese made knives are Kershaw and CRKT. Most of the US made knives are ZT, Spyderco, Benchmade, ProTech, MicroTech and Cold Steel.

I have begun to consciously choose to buy only US made Kershaw and CRKT knives, because I already have too many Chinese made models of those brands, but I do not generally choose which knife to buy based on place of manufacture. I am more interested in the quality of the design and construction of the knives I buy and not all of the ones I like are made only in the USA.

The rise of Chinese made knives began long ago that started w/US companies outsourcing the construction of their knives to reduce costs and has led to Chinese companies designing, constructing and selling knives of their own in the US. Artisan Cutlery is just the newest of these companies, which also includes Kizer and WE. Here's a link to an interesting blog article on this topic: Knife Myths.
 
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It's sad but true. I've spent a couple months in China, and work with Chinese frequently. If there's a way to cheat, they will do it without any hesitation.

One example: old businesses are very rare in China. Why? Because they see an opportunity for a cash grab and they take it. It kills their' company's reputation, but they don't care. Just close the business, move everything a block down, and re-open under a new name.

Really? All Chinese? That is an interesting point of view.
 
One point I see repeated again and again is that why buy Chinese if there is a similarly priced American item.

I dont quite understand this. Do the aesthetics of a knife not matter to a lot of you? If we look at two knives at similar prices and with similar materials, are you really saying you should buy the one you aren't attracted to because its American made?
 
One point I see repeated again and again is that why buy Chinese if there is a similarly priced American item.

I dont quite understand this. Do the aesthetics of a knife not matter to a lot of you? If we look at two knives at similar prices and with similar materials, are you really saying you should buy the one you aren't attracted to because its American made?
Funnily enough, knife aesthetics are fairly important to me, and play a key role in why I do not have Chinese knives. I don’t own ZT knives either, bar 1 early model, and in both cases there is no appeal in terms of aesthetics. It is an easy problem to solve for me, as I don’t like the knives in the first place.
 
One point I see repeated again and again is that why buy Chinese if there is a similarly priced American item.

I dont quite understand this. Do the aesthetics of a knife not matter to a lot of you? If we look at two knives at similar prices and with similar materials, are you really saying you should buy the one you aren't attracted to because its American made?
Are American made knives unattractive to you?
We all have to buy what we like, or we won't enjoy owning them. We will be disappointed with the purchase. For some of us, buying from an unethical source can sour us on a knife and some people think it's important to support local businesses and manufactures with their dollars above other considerations. And still, for others it's the price that will guide their purchases and if two knives are equally desirable and equally priced, then it will come down to other preferences to make a final decision.
I'm sure for some, Origin will trump aesthetics just like intended use can trump aesthetics.
 
My memory is far from poor. I vividly remember laughing at your ignorance before, and ignored you for it since momma taught me not to talk poorly about those that cannot help it. There are huge differences between people stating an opinion, and people telling falsehoods to make them feel better about said opinion. Remove any of my opinions from any of my posts, and the facts still stand, with everything I stated still holding true. Instead of disproving any of it, you swarm towards the minuscule amount of opinion while not touching the facts. Read between the lines, and congrats on rehashing my ending line, very original, oh wait. Maybe you should take a hint from your username.
Could you do us a favor and remove the opinion from your posts and let the facts stand?

Just for fun.

Because I'm having trouble winnowing the facts.

It'll be a big help.

Thanks in advance.
 
....I don't quite understand this. Do the aesthetics of a knife not matter to a lot of you? If we look at two knives at similar prices and with similar materials, are you really saying you should buy the one you aren't attracted to because its American made?

I have gotten to the point where I buy whatever tickles the fancy. I have long since covered any practical needs for an indeterminate number of lifetimes, so it comes down to innovative, unusual and even purely silly stuff. Don't over think it; enjoy the hobby and be grateful that we have a wide range of choices. One of the reason that I am biased on American knives is that we still hold the record on lawyers and litigation; so, if a US company puts a product out there, it is probably exactly as described.

n2s
 
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No evidence of human involvement? There is your human involvement. If anything, humans are MORE involved because labor is cheaper so they can do such. Show me any American manufacturers that use hand rubbed blades, or hand ground blades, or hand ANYTHING for a reasonable price.

And you stick to junky emersons huh, good for you. Talk about soul less knives. Pretty sure I could make a knife out of playdoh that wouldn't have as many issues. And marfione? Are you seriously trolling us too? Someone known to copy designs and call them his own. He follows "Chinese practices" more than most Chinese brands.
A. Nice job going overboard.
B. I said aesthetically - I just don't like the general CNC/Milled/Framelock aesthetic of Reate, Kizer, WE, etc.
C. I am pretty sure you couldn't.
D. And again, I didn't comment on Chinese business practices, or Marfiones. Both of which are questionable. Just that if I wanted "slick" CNC'ed knives, that's what I bought.

My post was just that I DON"T LIKE THE GENERAL CHINESE DESIGN AESTHETIC.
 
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It doesn’t help that there is a saying in Chinese that the three rules lf business are, “bamboozle, bamboozle, bamboozle.”

That said there are plenty of Chinese companies today that realize if they want to get good money for their product even build quality and materials are not enough. I have no problem rewarding Chinese businesses that understand doing good business and developing that reputation is vital.

We know there are shady businesses in China. Guess what, there are shady businesses in every country. I judge a business on a case by case basis rather than saying “American good, Chinese bad.”
 
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Spyderco makes most of their stuff overseas, including things like the Spydiechef and all of their designer collaborations.
I was going to make another thread about wackest blade shapes, but I won’t for now. I thought of such a thread when I saw Nick Shabazz’s review of the ‘chef. Having a strong opinion I hope does not automatically make me a troll. Thicken up that skin!
 
The OP's point is that they're not always excellent. Maybe in WE's case, they are expensive enough to be. But another point is that in the $150+ bracket, why chance it? Even if you really do believe they won't cut corners, why not support domestic labor?

I just bought Steel Will Cutjack Mini and Modus in the past couple weeks. Build quality and fit & finish are excellent. Some folks have doubts about the steel: for example, is it equivalent to Queen's D2 as far as chemical quality and heat treat? I'm too new into ownership to know for sure yet. First impressions are excellent, but I won't be terribly surprised if it turns out that it's 8Cr marked as D2. I do know that it doesn't sharpen like 8Cr though. ;)

A couple things.

1. I was intentional about naming a specific, reputable maker. I understand the OP’s intent very well, and chose this specific approach to highlight that specificity matters. When I buy a ZT, for example, the country of origin tells me less about what I should expect than the brand does. This is also true of Chinese companies. Handling a Kubey doesn’t tell me anything about what I should expect from a WE knife, just as handling a U.S. made Kershaw doesn’t tell me anything about what I should expect from Chris Reeve Knives.

In other words, I couldn’t possibly give less of a $#!+ about opinions he has made about “Chinese knives”, based on his experience with Kubey, because “Chinese knives” is a strictly worthless descriptor when we talk about quality.

2. Why “risk it” over $150?

Let’s talk for a moment about risk assessment. Risk is determined by examining available information, and calculating a probabilistic model for likelihood of positive and negative outcomes. The better the data, and the larger the sample size, the more accurate our model becomes.

“Chinese maker” = $#!+ data.

“WE knives”, “Reate knives”, “Rike knives”, “Bestech knives”, “Real Steel”, “Ruike”, “SanRenMu”, etc are vastly better starting points.

Using WE as an example, we have huge data pools to draw from. They’re churning out tons of knives from their brand, as well as being known OEMs for Massdrop, Begg Steelcraft (at least one model), and others. Given that, you’d expect a reasonable number of hits when you search “we knife problem” on google or YouTube. But... those searches come up very dry.

Point of fact (not opinion): WE is one of the safest bets in terms of quality in the industry.

This is a well known reality.

So, when a person says to me, “why risk it?”, I have to conclude that they aren’t using the word “risk” because of analysis, and are instead using it because “Chinese” means more to them than data.
 
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