2016 Survive! GSO-5.1 compared with Swamp Rat Ratmandu and ESEE-6

[chiral.grolim]

2016 Edition - Survive! Knives GSO-5.1

Guy Seiferd's Survive! Knives has moved to Idaho where production continues, as do the growing pains. Survive! Knives is a "craft mid-tech" production company - Guy designs the knives to his specifications, orders the materials, has the materials processed to his specifications, gets the blades and handles and screws and sheaths sent back to him, then sharpens each blade (usually himself) and builds them with his team (currently 3 people including Guy) according to customer orders before shipping them out. On top of production, they try (really just one person) to manage customer service via e-mails, phone calls, internet posts on bladeforums and instagram and facebook and wherever else they have a presence... Yeesh!

Survive! Knives is a very small operation with various aspects of production out-sourced to professional groups here in the USA. As with any company, production delays happen. Something Guy has continually been criticized for is his optimistic estimations of delivery dates. He tried to do away with this problem by stopping his original business model of "pre-order" kick-start campaigns, but fans continued to demand that he take their money Wellllll in exchange for a discount on their order, fans can invest their money with Survive! Knives and then sit back and wait... and wait... patience required!!! I don't know how many of the e-mails and phone-calls fielded by the S!K customer-service representative are simply questions on delivery estimates or requests for refunds because it is taking too long, but it must be substantial. Survive! does put out a monthly newsletter with production updates (http://surviveknives.com/production-schedule/) which is better than the quarterly reports on my 401k But again, patience required.




And with patience comes the reward

This is the next (3rd?) generation of the GSO-5.1 (preordered 4/2015, delivered 1/2016). http://surviveknives.com/gso-5-1/

I reviewed the previous version of this knife in a thread here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...n-to-SYKCO-511-SRKW-RatManDu-Cattaraugus-225Q
Just for a reminder, here is a pic of my now passed-along GSO-5.1:

Let's focus on the new

From the Survive! website:

New for 2015 we've taken the already outstanding SURVIVE! GSO-5.1 and made it even better. While the blade profile has remained the same, we've lengthened and recontoured the handle a bit to improve comfort and usability over a wider range of users.

The SURVIVE! GSO-5.1, a full sized medium utility knife, is one of the most versatile cutting tools in the SURVIVE! line up. The robust, well balanced design of this tool allows you to tackle a wide variety of tasks with relative ease. The very manageable size and weight of the GSO-5.1 is solid and confident in your hand, without being heavy or feeling bulky.

Our high quality Torx T-25 style fasteners are precision machined from 416 stainless steel. Key features of the kydex sheaths include: excellent retention, drain channels, and several attachment options with slots and eyelets, in addition to the kydex clip. The peened finish on the blade provides extra durability and is non-reflective. The spine is sharp enough for use with most ferro rods.

Technical Specifications
Blade Material: CPM-3V or CPM-20CV
Blade Length: 5.75" (tip to front of handle), 5.10" (tip to finger choil)
Blade Cutting Length: 5.37"
Blade Height: 1.50"
Blade Thickness: .185"
Overall Length: 10.93"
Weight: 11.1 oz (knife only), 15 oz (w/ sheath)

The above are as listed on the site, but I've confirmed each with my own scales and calipers, they are right on the money :thumbup: I'll add some measurements as I describe the knife below.

The cutting geometry of the GSO-5.1, both the previous version and this one, is superb for a knife of this design. The 3/16" blade is saber grind with a 1/2" flat and a 1" primary bevel running 5-dps down to an edge that is only ~0.021" thick and ~20-dps with an even bevel honed to a hair-splitting finish from tip to choil. Outstanding for a production knife. The primary bevel tapers to 0.76" wide as it nears the tip for enhanced strength.

The tip itself, which is nicely in line with the handle, came pointy and sharp :thumbup:

The steel being used in this particular knife is CPM-3V heat-treated by Peter's Heat Treat in PA using a new protocol to enhance edge-retention, strength, and impact resistance, RC 59.5 - 60.5. Gone is the stonewash finish of previous models, Guy is trying out a new "peened" (bead-blast?) finish which is claimed to improve strength and corrosion resistance while also reducing glare. I test the durability of this new finish in a video and thread here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1314914-Field-testing-the-new-finish/page4

[video=youtube;tusmZwVfgM4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tusmZwVfgM4[/video]

The new production method also results in blades with a cleaner finish along the perimeter (no more cutting-marks) and sharper edges that are capable of throwing sparks from a ferro-rod. A groove cut for striking a ferro-rod is still more effective. It may not be necessary, especially if you're smart enough to bring an alternate striker for your ferro-rod, or better still a lighter or set of matches , but it does improve the performance of the spine as a striker. Users can do this themselves with a dremel-drum or honing cylinder.
The jimping now extends ~1.6" from the handle-scales for a generous gripping platform. The jimping consists on a series of flat peaks and rounded valleys 1/16" each, with edges sharp enough to catch a bare or gloved thumb without digging in too uncomfortably... it isn't bad but is something that users may wish to modify themselves with a few swipes of a coarse diamond hone to round those edges down. *shrug* However, the edges of the jimping can be used for scraping tinder from wood, an advantage one may wish to reserve.
Survive! also implemented a new laser-engraver for a more refined look to their company logo, steel-type, and American flag:

As mentioned on the S!K website, the new GSO-5.1 is very similar in blade-specs to the previous version. What really sets this new version apart is the handle. It is about 1/4" longer at 5.1" (including the 1/8" extended pommel for hammering) - previous version was ~4.85". Along with that length, the handle is contoured both laterally and vertically, featuring a subtle curve to the spine at the palm-swell that settles it fully in the grasp of the user for a full-contact grip, and it tapers both from spine-to-belly as well as toward the index and pinky fingers, with a strong flare at the pommel. The scales on this particular knife are natural canvas micarta - the finish is unpolished for excellent retention without causing blisters in both wet and dry conditions. Retention could be further improved by carving a pattern into the scales similar to the Bussekin, and new Fiddleback and BHK production knives, but the grip is stellar as is.

In the swell, the handle is 0.9" thick x 1.32" wide, 3.85" circumference. This tapers to 0.67 x 1.04, 3.19" in the index groove and 3.12" above the pommel-flare. For my medium-size (7) hands, it bespeaks comfort well beyond most knives that I've handled. It gives the user full transfer of power from their muscles to the knife without undue hand-adjustment or pressure against specific regions of the handle - the stress is evenly distributed whether in hammer-grip, reverse, ice-pick, and so forth. When you thrust/stab with the knife, the entire handle keeps your hand from sliding forward, not just the integral guard.

The handle has something of a tear-drop cross-section, tapering from spine to belly. If you are used to knives with very round or very straight handles (e.g. Becker, Kabar, BRKT, BHK, etc.) then you may find this kind of contouring confusing
The tapering toward the blade allows for an easy pinch-grip for delicate slicing, and the taper before the pommel flare aids retention is a rearward grip for snap-cutting and chopping.

This handle is really really thought out.

Choked (forward) grip:

Snap-cutting (rearward) grip:

Like its predecessor, this knife has perfect balance.

 

[chiral.grolim]

With the new torx-bolts, I will miss the aligned screw-heads that were iconic of Survive! Guy included a T-25 in case users want to remove/customize the scales of their knife, he hopes to offer a variety of replacement scales on the website in the future.

The pommel is 1.2" wide with ~1" of jimped flat-surface for pounding, the angle of the pommel set just-so, so that a user pounding in a stake or other object will strike the target flat without having to adjust their swing or the natural position of their wrist. Note the difference between the angled 5.1 pommel and that of the Cattaraugus 225Q:

Guy has stated that this angle is not accidental but a deliberate feature of the design. The jimping aids in grip against the target. Beneathe the pommel is a wide, hidden lanyard hole that allows users to add a lanyard without removing the scales of the knife:

The sheath supplied with the GSO-5.1 is excellent, some of the BEST kydex work you are likely to find with a production knife - easily worth $40+ from a custom maker. Maintaining the previous ambidextrous pancake-design with rivetted holes and slots around the perimeter, the new sheath has a narrower profile with a folded side for seamless integrity. It is sturdy 0.080" kydex with a full-blade drainage channel and a collar that secures the blade and handle without any noticable wobble/rattle, providing VERY secure retention but with enough flex to allow the user to deploy the knife using the integrated thumb-ramp.

The sheath includes Guy/Kiah's Molle G-clip thickened to 0.125" kydex for secure attachment to gear or horizontal carry, for clipping to the outside of a pocket, or for high-ride vertical carry.

As with the previous iteration of the GSO-5.1, I moved the MOLLE-clip to the front of the sheath for attaching a tool-pouch/case, employed a UKE 2.0 for low-ride, angled, or dangler carry: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...niversal-Kydex-Extension-REVISED-and-IMPROVED!!

The previous GSO-5.1 sheath accidentally matched the ESEE Molle-back & pouch, the new one has it's holes/slots a little off for screw-on attachment but it can still be secured with a little bit of paracord :thumbup:

The GSO-5.1 is currently listed as $229.00 USD on the Survive! Knives website (shipping included), but is out of stock - this is cheaper than the previous verson ... http://surviveknives.com/gso-5-1/
This is an incredibly economical price for the quality of workmanship and materials that went into such a knife.

 

[chiral.grolim]

In my previous review, I compared the GSO-5.1 to a few knives of similar style/design.
The GSO-5.1 fits into the category of general "survival knife" - it is built a bit long for just hunting/hiking, but maybe not as long as might be desired for a heavy camp or combat knife.
Here I will compare it to the Swamp Rat Ratmandu (again, it's a favorite ) and also the well-known ESEE-6.

Comparative blade cross-section schematic:

I detailed the Ratmandu in a previous review but here are the specs on it again, currently priced at ~$175 (including s/h) from the Swamp, no sheath included: http://www.swampratknifeworks.com/available-now-ratmandu-cg/

Length: 10.7" OAL = 5.6" blade (4.9" cutting edge from heel to tip) + 5.1" handle (including extended pommel)
Blade Height: 1.38" = 0.44" saber flat + 0.88" primary-bevel + 0.06" edge bevel
Thickness: 0.188" spine down to >0.03" edge, 5-DPS primary bevel and 15-DPS edge angle (modified from a much thicker factory edge)
Weight: 9.5 oz
Materials: SR101 steel, canvas micarta scales

The Ratmandu deserves praise for its ergonomics - the handle is cut vertically to fit the shape of the human hand in a way that few other knives I've held can match, the spine and belly curve to fit in the pocket of the hand and take pressure off the various muscle groups to allow controlled translation of power from the user to the knife edge with minimal discomfort and good retention. The scales are relatively flat with diagonal grooving and well rounded edges.

The edge on this blade is not stock, it has been thinned somewhat to improve cutting efficiency.

The primary point of discomfort in this handle might come from the guard-choil transition - the ricasso is somwhat large and puts ~1/2" of metal between the user's fingers in a choked-grip. The GSO-5.1 tapers to only ~1/4".

The RMD feels much smaller than the GSO-5.1 despite the similar specs. Perhaps a better comparison would be the recently released "Jackmandu". The GSO-5.1's slightly broader and longer blade as well as slightly longer handle, the added ounces, and the 3-dimensional swelling/tapering of the handle gives the user the impression that this knife can handle a LOT more power and heavier use than the RMD. The RMD is the one with the thicker edge-geometry which, coupled to the thick/durable coating, reduces its cutting performance signficantly against the GSO. The RMD may be the better choice if users are expecting to do a lot of prying with the blade or hammering into hard objects (concrete, metal) but the GSO, with its finer edge, is the better carver. Now, that is not to say that the RMD cannot be made thinner - strip the coating and grind down the edge, or purchase a custom-shop version and the performance of the RMD jumps, but that is added cost or time/$$ and the SR101 steel, excellent as it is, is nowhere near as corrosion resistant as the GSO's special CPM-3V. You purchase instead the INFI Ratmandu or the SWATmandu and get the performance of INFI steel, but now you are talking about prices ~$300 for a machine-made knife. If you spring for an uncoated, thinned version and couple the knife with a good sheath, you will wind up with an excellent blade with impressive durability, cutting performance, and handling, that is relatively light-weight and very well balanced.

The RMD remains one of my favorite knives for hunting, hiking, camping, etc.

 

[chiral.grolim]

Another knife that price-conscious potential customers may be interested in is the ESEE-6.

ESEE has built a reputation for their "no questions asked" warranty, but for me the warranty is my biggest concern. From their website: http://www.eseeknives.com/warranty.htm

If you break it, we will replace it. Warranty is lifetime and transferable...

ESEE KNIVES ARE NOT THROWING KNIVES! They are hardened to a higher Rockwell than throwing knives and will most likely break if thrown, possibly harming the user. So, do yourself and your ESEE knife a favor and DO NOT throw it. Using any knife not meant to be thrown as a throwing knife is idiotic! We would rather idiots not buy our knives.

Note: We do not warranty our 440C Stainless Steel knives from abuse. It should be noted that 440C is not as flexible as our carbon steels. Any excessive flexing will cause the knife to break.

The wording of this warranty as well as posts from the owners themselves have generally turned me away from the company - too little confidence in their own overbuilt tools, and unprofessional behavior towards customers.
That said, their manufacturer Rowen (https://www.facebook.com/RowenMfg) has a reputation for a durable heat-treatment of 1095 steel and some of the designs (especially the Izula) are very appealing. The knives come equipped with a quality sheath (kydex or injection-molding, this one features the latter), and unpolished canvas-micarta scales that provide good retention, and the same/similar thick traction-coating found on the "combat grade" bussekin knives, as well as many other brands. ESEE recently began selling uncoated versions of some of their knives as well as models in 440C stainless steel (not including the ESEE-6), customers should take note that 1095 is highly prone to corrosion if note cared for (keep it oiled or get a patina on it quick) and the stainless models do not feature the same warranty.

Sheath

The ESEE-6 is a large 12 oz camp/combat knife with 6" blade and 1/2 ricasso above the 5.25" handle (which includes a 1/4" extended pommel that is well-angled for striking, just like the GSO). The 3/16" stock is given a full flat grind for a thinner 1.5"-wide primary bevel as can be seen in the diagram above. The edge, however, measures 0.044" in the belly and 0.038" in the sweep - quite thick. The thick edge, coupled with the thick coating, severly hamper the cutting/carving performance of this otherwise fairly-thin knife, just as they hamper the RMD - users should be advised to reprofile the knives when they get them, convex-down the shoulders recommended :thumbup:.

For forgetful knife-users, the ESEE-6 reminds the holder that it is an ESEE knife with full three inscriptions of the company name, including the model of the knife itself, "ESEE-6".
The ESEE-6 features a large "finger"-choil for a choked grip, the guard tapers to 1/4" like the GSO for a comfortable hold. The handle itself, which has vertical contouring and liners beneath the canvas scales, features a 4.5" grip length that should accomodate large hands. The problem with the handle is that, despite some slight rounding of the corners of the canvas slabs, it is quite "boxy", indeed it feels not unlike grabbing a slightly chamfered slab of wood - VERY uncomfortable in a variety of grips, quickly leading to hand fatigue in ungloved use. The scales should be considered "unfinished" and users may find it necessary to modify them with a dremel/sanding-block, or there are after-market scales available with the contouring that these knives should have been given from the factory: https://www.theknifeconnection.net/tkc-g10-handles-en-2/

As it happens, the website above has the option for users to "build your own ESEE-6" allowing customers to purchase the blade-blank without the factory scales and add a better set from their website. An ESEE-6 factory kit costs ~$115 USD as of this post, a custom kit (blade, scales, sheath) would cost ~$137 - not much more $$ for a MUCH better tool.

Spec-wise, ESEE-6 is significantly larger than the GSO-5.1, however I did not find it to be a bigger performer. It is fairly light for its size at only 12oz, and the blade tapers such that there is not much weight near the tip for added chopping-power, the balance is quite neutral=nimble for finer tasks but the extra blade-length doesn't present me with much utility over what the GSO-5.1 offers...


But I tend to prefer more compact knives for ease of carry. With a thinner edge, the ESEE could make a good "hunter" for much large game than I have here, or a combat knife given the extra reach, but with the increased length comes increased leverage that the blade may not be able to support. Not that I'm concerned about the durability of the tool - 1095 spring-steel is HT'd to 55-57Rc by Rowen should be able to endure a LOT of abuse prior to failure. It shouldn't be a problem batonning through logs though it may struggle more with friction along the thin bevel and doesn't have the strength of the other knives presented here. *shrug*

 

[chiral.grolim]

I'll embed some use videos of the GSO-5.1 below, but here is my summation:

The Swamp Rat Ratmandu gives you excellent ergos on a strong, compact, quality cutting tool that, when modified at the edge, presents an excellent all-around knife for outdoor use that can endure significant abuse and hold a keen edge... but it won't come that way from the factory unless you pay to get it, nor will it come with a sheath - user experience required. Base price without a sheath, $175.

The ESEE-6 gives you an excellent platform from which to build a tough combat/utility knife - professional HT'd blade with a neutral balance for nimble maneuvering, add on some custom sculpted scales and a decent sheath, and there are a number of other accessories possible as well, base price for the build-your-knife kit = $137. It steel won't hold an edge like the RMD but it's bigger and less expensive and easy enough to sharpen, still a new blade will require some edge modification before it will perform to its potential. Oh, and it should be mentioned that this knife is commonly available from a variety of vendors with very little turn-around time.


The GSO-5.1 costs significantly more than either of these knives, but those costs translate to the quality of the materials and the workmanship. The sheath is superior by far, the fit & finish is superior by far, the ergos are amazing right out of the box, the knife is built for comfort and strength and durability and most importantly the cutting performance is WELL beyond what either of these can muster without significant modification. I doubt it will handle beating through cinder-blocks as well as the other two, but I suspect it would perform better than either if they were brought down in edge-thickness to match the efficiency of the GSO.


It can take a long time for customers to get their hands on a Survive! knife, but they can be absolutely certain that the knife they recieved is one of the best performers around - worth the wait and the price imho.

 

[chiral.grolim]

[video=youtube;gYWafo6EoTM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYWafo6EoTM[/video]

 

[DeadboxHero]

Bad ass review man

 

[Hard Knocks]

The GSO 4.7 and this new version 5.1 are the two blades I am most excited to get in my hands right now. Thanks for taking the time to review the Esee, the Swamprat and the GSO, your effort is much appreciated.

 

[B.F.U]

Stellar review!

I haven't owned a SURVIVE! knife, but I have been interested in them for a couple years. Originally I was interested because they were based in PA, used Peter's (which is top notch and local to me), and they looked like well thought out designs. I think I'm only now really understanding the company well. I have to say, I do not like their pre-order/starter system at all and have no intention of using it. I do, however, want to get and at least try one of their mid sized knives once they come up for normal sale on their website. It seems its a designer as a company, who has the knife made 90% by outside professional services and then finished by the designer/business owner. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as the owner has the knives made by high quality services, with high quality materials, to high quality standards, which it seems like they do. Do I think there are handmade knives available with similar or better materials and quality at lesser wait times? Yeah, probably. But that doesn't detract from the fact that SURVIVE! knives are probably well worth their prices.

Your criticisms of ESEE and Bussekin are right on. My Bussekin have needed thinned out, and it does add cost to get a sheath. However, I think they offer a lot of really comfortable handles, and getting your own sheath leaves more options. The ESEE 6 handle is not comfortable, and it does not cut that well. Also, your criticism of the warranty is right on. It turns out nothing but the blade blank is covered by the warranty, and if you do anything with the knife the co-owner thinks is silly you will be considered and talked to like an idiot. The picture of the knife that was shot and replaced on their site is pure marketing bologna that has no bearing on the actual implementation of their warranty.

Thanks for the great review, and congrats on the great knife!

 

[pjandyho]

Thanks for writing an awesome and detailed review. Coincidentally, you touched on the RMD which is what I have in INFI, and the Esee 6 which is what I have been planning to buy with the TKC G-10 scales.

I like my INFI RMD and I do agree a with your findings although the INFI version does come with a slightly thinner blade tang from what others have commented. Been trying to chock up on the choil for more controlled cutting but I just can't get used to the larger slab of ricasso there which in my opinion is real uncomfortable. The GSO 5.1 looks like a more thought out knife when it comes to ergonomics. Also, I reprofiled the edge on my INFI RMD to make it thinner and it now slices paper better than many of my knives (the original factory edge can't even slice paper well). As for the handle of the RMD, I am not too sure I share the same opinion as you. Although it felt comfortable, I do find that the flatter sides makes it kind of a bit harder to get a proper grip on certain chores and it does introduce some fatigue to my hand.

As for the Esee 6, I am not too sure if I would still want it. Been eyeing it for some time and lately my attention got diverted to more bushcraft style knives and I ended up buying knives made for that. I tried carving some try sticks out of my Esee 3 and although it got the job done, the thin and flat handle slabs introduces a lot of fatigue and hot spots on my hand. So I ended up purchasing a TKC scales for it (currently in transit to me) and that's where I started looking at the Esee 6 again and somehow ignited the old fire in me that has almost died down. I suddenly want an Esee 6 with a camo handle, until I read your review. I guess you are right. What you have pointed out about the Esee 6 is exactly what I have been thinking. Moreover, I have a GSO 7/7 on pre-order and it should do what the Esee 6 was made to do.

Now I just can't wait to get my GSO 5.1.

By the way Chiral, can you make a shorter version of the dangler? I want the handle to sit slightly lower on my belt and still be flexible but not too low like the ones you have. And do you do international?

 

[chiral.grolim]

pjandyho,

I did have one customer cut the upper holes off of his extension to raise the carry, that's certainly an option. However, the extension doesn't have to be mounted right under the mouth of the sheath as shown, it can be mounted into holes/slots further down the sheath to let you carry your knife at whatever height you like :thumbup: I'll try to upload some photos of this with the GSO-5.1 this weekend.

Regarding the ESEE-6, you'd definitely want to modify the scales or get the custom ones, and one could grind the shoulders off the edge and strip the coating to make it an excellent slicer if desired, but the steel is corrosion-prone, low-wear, and not HT'd to high hardness - changing the handles, the blade-finish, and the edge-geometry are still not going to make it a Survive! knife in performance, but one could do a lot worse than an ESEE-6, it's still a very capable tool.

I am surprised that you've had issues with the RMD handle and am curious what chores are harder because of the lack of lateral contouring. At the index, and also near the heel for rear-ward or reverse grips, a flat "platform" is essential IMO for maintaining directional control of the knife-edge - I am impressed by how well Guy implemented these in his design. What the GSO presents that the RMD lacks is a lateral "palm-swell" to distribute pressure more evenly in the hand in specific grips, although the vertical contouring fulfills much of that in each, and the flatter handle is more "low-profile". I would LOVE a thinner-ground, lighter version of the RMD... actually of a LOT of Swamp Rat and Busse-kin knives, but especially the RMD, HRLM, and the Rodent Solution... which may be why I ordered the GSO-5.1, 4.7, 4.1, and 3.5 My wife is going to request that I sell at least some of these knives to further our childrens' educations, but you can expect written reviews on each model, comparing them to those Swamp Rats and some other knives as well. :thumbup:

 

[pjandyho]

Thanks Chiral! Never thought of mounting the dangler lower on the sheath until you pointed it out. Will that affect the balance? I don't really want to use the tigh strap and prefers my knife to be dangling free. All I wanted was for the sheath to sit lower on my belt so that the pommel will not be digging onto my ribs, but yet not too low that it screams "KNIFE!". I am using my t-shirt to partially conceal the handle so it can't ride too low, and if possible cover part of the sheath. The picture below is what Eric of Mashed Cat did for me using an adjustable strap via Velcro and canvas, secured with a sheet of kydex plate behind. I like it this way because it is flexible but yet the knife doesn't swing around. Since I am not sending my GSOs to him for the sheath, I thought I would just get some danglers from you.

The handle on the Infidu is ok in most uses but because it is too flat, I suffered some fatigue on my fingers when doing some chopping tasks. When doing some power cuts in the saber grip position, the rather thin handle seems to dig into the palm area between my thumb and index finger. My friend owns a Swatmandu with liners in the handle scales and the broader width makes it more comfortable to hold. From all the photos, I think I will like the contoured handle on the new GSO 5.1 and I think it will feel as good as my LT Wright GNS.

 

[craytab]

Excellent and well put together review. I don't agree with much of it but since it is mostly opinion that is to be expected.

Your assessment of the Esee warranty is off. They will replace your knife no matter what, even if you throw it. They may not do it a second time and nor should they need someone so stupid to use their products and that is their words not mine. And if you break you handle scales or sheath throwing it they will not replace them. That sucks IMO. The handles should carry the same warranty as the sheath though not the sheath. However in the warranty it does say the blade is the only thing covered and it isn't even Esee who covers it, that would be Rowen. The negative reports compared to the positives are few and far between as with most good companies. Comparing knives with nearly twice the cost difference is also of little use.

Your handle preference is just that and your dislike of many well loved handles is documented (think BRKT Bravo series). The RMD is well regarded as the most comfortable handle out there and for good reason. I think it is more comfortable than a GSO handle. Even with a sheath the RMD is less money and has a better warranty. Many of us like to reprofile our knives to our liking and if you use the knife you will need to sharpen it, if you don't use the knife it won't matter what the edge is like.

It is well documented here that Survive as a company has some serious problems of their own right now. I won't get into it much here but they are asking people to pay up front for knives (never good) and have been having communication issues. If you want one of their knives and you can get one you should count yourself as lucky. Like all companies, they are not perfect out the door either. I had to send one back in because it had a badly blunted tip from the factory. Guy took care of it quickly. This was several years ago and I don't know how they respond these days and I would worry about that given the known issues they are having currently.

At the end of the day I will take my Esee 6, RMD, and a plethora of other knives over trying to get a GSO. Just my opinion though. I wanted to offer some alternative opinions to yours. To each their own.

 

[B.F.U]

Excellent and well put together review. I don't agree with much of it but since it is mostly opinion that is to be expected.

Your assessment of the Esee warranty is off. They will replace your knife no matter what, even if you throw it. They may not do it a second time and nor should they need someone so stupid to use their products and that is their words not mine. And if you break you handle scales or sheath throwing it they will not replace them. That sucks IMO. The handles should carry the same warranty as the sheath though not the sheath. However in the warranty it does say the blade is the only thing covered and it isn't even Esee who covers it, that would be Rowen. The negative reports compared to the positives are few and far between as with most good companies. Comparing knives with nearly twice the cost difference is also of little use.

Your handle preference is just that and your dislike of many well loved handles is documented (think BRKT Bravo series). The RMD is well regarded as the most comfortable handle out there and for good reason. I think it is more comfortable than a GSO handle. Even with a sheath the RMD is less money and has a better warranty. Many of us like to reprofile our knives to our liking and if you use the knife you will need to sharpen it, if you don't use the knife it won't matter what the edge is like.

It is well documented here that Survive as a company has some serious problems of their own right now. I won't get into it much here but they are asking people to pay up front for knives (never good) and have been having communication issues. If you want one of their knives and you can get one you should count yourself as lucky. Like all companies, they are not perfect out the door either. I had to send one back in because it had a badly blunted tip from the factory. Guy took care of it quickly. This was several years ago and I don't know how they respond these days and I would worry about that given the known issues they are having currently.

At the end of the day I will take my Esee 6, RMD, and a plethora of other knives over trying to get a GSO. Just my opinion though. I wanted to offer some alternative opinions to yours. To each their own.

This isn't an ESEE thread, but I disagree that their warranty is worded in an honest way, and I know they don't treat customers with respect. I'd be interested in hearing your experiences with the ESEE warranty through pm.

 

[craytab]

This isn't an ESEE thread, but I disagree that their warranty is worded in an honest way, and I know they don't treat customers with respect. I'd be interested in hearing your experiences with the ESEE warranty through pm.

I know it is not an esee thread :thumbup: or a swamp rat thread or a buck thread or an any other knife thread. It is a comparison thread. If people don't want to discuss the opinions the OP stated then they can ignore what everyone else has to say and if the OP doesn't want people to post their opinions on the topic in his thread he can close it. No need to get defensive. We are just sharing opinions here.

I have no experience with Esee's warranty as I don't abuse my knives and haven't had any accidents or catastrophic failures in workmanship. I know you had a problem and I agree with you on the fact that the scale should be covered. However I think throwing a non-throwing knife is abuse and I don't condone that. But too each their own opinion. I have full confidence that with my the way I use my knives any failure I have with my Esee knives would be covered; the same with my Busse and Swamprats. It is okay for people to hear about what other folks think on such matters isn't it?

 

[B.F.U]

I know it is not an esee thread[emoji106]or a swamp rat thread or a buck thread or an any other knife thread. It is a comparison thread. If people don't want to discuss the opinions the OP stated then they can ignore what everyone else has to say and if the OP doesn't want people to post their opinions on the topic in his thread he can close it. No need to get defensive. We are just sharing opinions here.

I have no experience with Esee's warranty as I don't abuse my knives and haven't had any accidents or catastrophic failures in workmanship. I know you had a problem and I agree with you on the fact that the scale should be covered. However I think throwing a non-throwing knife is abuse and I don't condone that. But too each their own opinion. I have full confidence that with my the way I use my knives any failure I have with my Esee knives would be covered; the same with my Busse and Swamprats. It is okay for people to hear about what other folks think on such matters isn't it?

Whoa whoa, my "this isn't an ESEE thread" was directed at my own comment. I focused on ESEE whereas yours covered all the knives discussed. I wasn't criticising your post or being defensive at all, I genuinely was/am interested in hearing your and others' experiences with the ESEE warranty but just thought that'd be better suited for pm. I think you misinterpreted my post and became defensive, but that's understandable because tone doesn't translate well in text.

I maintain that the way the ESEE warranty is worded and the way they market their warranty, which I see as the main selling point for many buyers, is at best incorrect and at worst intentionally deceptive. I'm 100% fine with you expressing your experiences and opinions as I have above.

 

[knife chop]

great review! The sheath imo might have some durability issues due to the thickness. Kiah used .093". Maybe they went for .080" to reduce cost bit

 

[rexromic]

Great review.Thank you.

 

[craytab]

Whoa whoa, my "this isn't an ESEE thread" was directed at my own comment. I focused on ESEE whereas yours covered all the knives discussed. I wasn't criticising your post or being defensive at all, I genuinely was/am interested in hearing your and others' experiences with the ESEE warranty but just thought that'd be better suited for pm. I think you misinterpreted my post and became defensive, but that's understandable because tone doesn't translate well in text.

I maintain that the way the ESEE warranty is worded and the way they market their warranty, which I see as the main selling point for many buyers, is at best incorrect and at worst intentionally deceptive. I'm 100% fine with you expressing your experiences and opinions as I have above.

No worries. I did misinterpret your post. My fault. Looking at it now I can see what you are saying. We have even talked about this before cordially. I agree the warranty can be read wrong and that they should cover the handles. No need to take it to PM since the OP made a large claim of their warranty in his review/comparison. We just disagree on this point. For my uses the warranty is exactly what I want.

 

[B.F.U]

No worries. I did misinterpret your post. My fault. Looking at it now I can see what you are saying. We have even talked about this before cordially. I agree the warranty can be read wrong and that they should cover the handles. No need to take it to PM since the OP made a large claim of their warranty in his review/comparison. We just disagree on this point. For my uses the warranty is exactly what I want.

[emoji106] I'm glad we could get on the same page. Nothing wrong with having different opinions on the warranty.