2018 BF Traditional Knife

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@skblades, a 301 with upgraded blade steel and flat ground blades would probably be a good mover regardless, I don't believe Buck has done flat ground blades on their 300 series knives since bringing production of them in house. As to the annual knife, without the BF stamp, it's really just another short run SFO. .02 cent
 
Old Hunter said:
We are not dead in the water if you look at SK Blades #2 offer. What you do lose is the official "Blade Forums" tang stamp and identity. I have bought a couple of SK Blades offerings in the Buck Sub-forum here (and am waiting on the word to order another). They are short run Buck Knives, designed with the input of the Buck Sub-forum members - it works out very nicely for all involved. If the "Blade Forums" tang stamp is the key decision point, then we are currently back to the drawing board. OH
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That's what I meant. The official BF Traditional knife.
I will likely buy one of @skblades Bucks in the future, now that I know about them! I am glad to learn whats available from a USA manufacturer and support them when they do it right.
 
Charlie, Barry, Lloyd, liamstrain, Sarah... and of course GEC,
Thank you all for your part in making the wonderful annual knives available to us these past few years. I own and treasure some of them and will always be grateful to those involved.

This year I was hoping we would once again have a couple of great brands to choose from as we did in 2015 when Canal Street was selected to produce BF's annual knife. If that is not to be for this year, I can only hope that next year this scenario might reoccur.

Thanks again to everyone involved over the years and here's to hoping for the continuation of a tradition that I feel is enjoyable and important to us all... having a "Blade Forum Knife of the Year", this year, next year and so on...
 
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skblades said:
Though I'm only sitting at a computer screen, something physically palpable has just happened to this thread. I'm sure I am not eloquent enough to give a response perfectly, so I'll just go ahead and do my best and hope for grace if needed.

Hearing of the tradition outlined by @waynorth adds weight to the actions taken here. Also, the no profit rule has clearly shifted the game. I'm a guest over here with you all, the Buck Forum is my home, so I will tread as respectfully here as possible. Two options come to my mind for moving forward:

1. An Official Blade Forum Knife
SK can handle the communication between Buck and someone who would like to take on the volunteer position for the official Blade Forum Knife, can do so. That would shift the financial burden to the volunteer, as well as shipping and logistics. We could still use our dealer status with Buck to get the knife ordered and moving through the factory. This would still need the blessing of Spark.

2. A Buck Offering from SKBlades
We remove the Blade Forum logo, etching, stamp etc, from this knife and SK does what we do best. We facilitate a discussion for a Buck 301/303 with all the options already laid on the table, the two dot stamp being included. SK handles the financial burden, the logistics, and the shipping. This would not be "this year's forum knife" but rather an offering by SK built on the normal polling and discussions we have been doing for the last several years over in the Buck Sub.

I've sat and reflected on the recent thread posts, and talked them over with my business partners, and it makes very little business sense for SK to handle the financial burden (we are the original offerers for funding), logistics, and the risk in honor of what the tradition has been laid out to be. Personally I don't see how making a profit and creating something for the benefit of the community have to be mutually exclusive. We feel as though we offer both to the Buck Forum and have had a blast doing so. Ultimately, SK is a business and paying member of the forum to be so. Although the volunteer tradition is honorable, it is not something we are willing to do for such a large risk. The person or people that have done this in the past are to be given the utmost respect and thanks. The time and labor alone is monumental with such a large risk on the line.
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Thank you for outlining the options SK. I am hoping that perhaps you and Spark can work something out, and perhaps there can be an official 2018 knife.

I might be down for an unofficial knife, but that Bladeforums stamp is really the primary selling point for me. I will be very sad indeed if this is the end of the line for the tradition.

But it is what it is. I am very thankful to everyone who has kept the tradition going in the past, and especially thankful to SKblades for the work with Buck. I guess we will see what happens.
 
skblades said:
Though I'm only sitting at a computer screen, something physically palpable has just happened to this thread. I'm sure I am not eloquent enough to give a response perfectly, so I'll just go ahead and do my best and hope for grace if needed.

Hearing of the tradition outlined by @waynorth adds weight to the actions taken here. Also, the no profit rule has clearly shifted the game. I'm a guest over here with you all, the Buck Forum is my home, so I will tread as respectfully here as possible. Two options come to my mind for moving forward:

1. An Official Blade Forum Knife
SK can handle the communication between Buck and someone who would like to take on the volunteer position for the official Blade Forum Knife, can do so. That would shift the financial burden to the volunteer, as well as shipping and logistics. We could still use our dealer status with Buck to get the knife ordered and moving through the factory. This would still need the blessing of Spark.

2. A Buck Offering from SKBlades
We remove the Blade Forum logo, etching, stamp etc, from this knife and SK does what we do best. We facilitate a discussion for a Buck 301/303 with all the options already laid on the table, the two dot stamp being included. SK handles the financial burden, the logistics, and the shipping. This would not be "this year's forum knife" but rather an offering by SK built on the normal polling and discussions we have been doing for the last several years over in the Buck Sub.

I've sat and reflected on the recent thread posts, and talked them over with my business partners, and it makes very little business sense for SK to handle the financial burden (we are the original offerers for funding), logistics, and the risk in honor of what the tradition has been laid out to be. Personally I don't see how making a profit and creating something for the benefit of the community have to be mutually exclusive. We feel as though we offer both to the Buck Forum and have had a blast doing so. Ultimately, SK is a business and paying member of the forum to be so. Although the volunteer tradition is honorable, it is not something we are willing to do for such a large risk. The person or people that have done this in the past are to be given the utmost respect and thanks. The time and labor alone is monumental with such a large risk on the line.
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Thank you for your honesty and sincerity in this matter. It doesn’t change my mind though. I’ve purchased short run Bucks from you previously, and will again. If you’re still up for the 301 project, count me in for two.
 
A lot of new folks here and it's good to see the traditional community growing. Some of the new folks aren't familiar with the rules or the work by some of the forum members. I encourage the new members to read the posts by posts by Frank and Gary that reiterate the rules.

I appreciate and thank the forum members for their involvement every year. Some of the names have come up in this topic. Some of the names haven't. I assure the unnamed folks that those of us who were around back then do remember and appreciate their heroic efforts.
 
I gotta say all these rules and guidelines or whatever are a bit tedious. The process seems hard enough that even the most enthusiastic members suffer.

I am normally a huge fan of historical lessons learnt and always encourage others to look at what has gone before, however in this case I am not sure what lessons we are looking for.

The essence of the current situation seems to be that we would like a BF knife. So far only Buck is interested in producing one. We need a dealer prepared to volunteer their time, we have found one. That dealer would like to treat this as a typical limited run special order making their normal profit margin.

The sticking point is that the BF trademark will only be lent out if the dealer will not make any profit (noting the knife manufacturer is allowed to financially benefit)

The other 'rules' (such as a price ceiling) really have no meaning if there is no BF knife produced due to the aforementioned restriction.

So, normally in a business situation like this, wouldn't the dealer and the trademark owner come to an agreement on the use of the trademark?
 
Camillus said:
I gotta say all these rules and guidelines or whatever are a bit tedious. The process seems hard enough that even the most enthusiastic members suffer.

I am normally a huge fan of historical lessons learnt and always encourage others to look at what has gone before, however in this case I am not sure what lessons we are looking for.

The essence of the current situation seems to be that we would like a BF knife. So far only Buck is interested in producing one. We need a dealer prepared to volunteer their time, we have found one. That dealer would like to treat this as a typical limited run special order making their normal profit margin.

The sticking point is that the BF trademark will only be lent out if the dealer will not make any profit (noting the knife manufacturer is allowed to financially benefit)

The other 'rules' (such as a price ceiling) really have no meaning if there is no BF knife produced due to the aforementioned restriction.

So, normally in a business situation like this, wouldn't the dealer and the trademark owner come to an agreement on the use of the trademark?
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There really aren't that many rules. The main rule that causes the hangup is that Bladeforums belongs to Spark, and he has to agree to the use of his intellectual property. This is comparable to a fan film. Brands like Star Trek or Fallout have historically established rules (mainly no profit being made by the filmmakers) for use of their intellectual property. Just like in the case of fan films, this sub-forum knife has been an amateur production in recent years, rather than an official Bladeforums product. As such, it has required that everyone play by the rules in order to get done.

Everything else is just guidelines to maximize the number of people who can participate. I don't understand why so many people are having a hard time with the idea that Spark has control over his intellectual property. If his intellectual property is being used to sell a product, he has a right to set terms of usage.

Edited to Add: I realized after writing this that it might come off as aimed specifically at Camillus Camillus , and that was not my intention. I was more responding to what I perceive as a surprising amount of dismay at the idea that Spark might have rules about the use of his IP. I, like Camillus, think that it is certainly within reason and normal practices for an agreement to be reached, but it is Spark's ball. He can do with it as he wishes.

And as a Trekker, in reference to fan art and IP, I have to say, RIP Axanar :'(
 
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I gotta say. I would never think of buying a Buck these days to be honest. So even if the logistics of a BF knife were understandibly more than anyone would want to take on, I will say that if @skblades we're willing to bring any paying customer a special version of a 301 or 303 with at a minimum flat ground blades and 154 CM steel and a special cover choice then I'm in to buy my first Buck. I wouldn't be turned away either from a pre pay or a + $100 price tag. So yea, bring it on SK, I'll play! Whether it be a BF knife or a "special" run under your flag I'd like to see it happen. Put it this way, you've peaked the intrest of a customer who otherwise probably would not have ever shopped your store or purchased a Buck knife.
 
Camillus said:
I gotta say all these rules and guidelines or whatever are a bit tedious. The process seems hard enough that even the most enthusiastic members suffer.

I am normally a huge fan of historical lessons learnt and always encourage others to look at what has gone before, however in this case I am not sure what lessons we are looking for.

The essence of the current situation seems to be that we would like a BF knife. So far only Buck is interested in producing one. We need a dealer prepared to volunteer their time, we have found one. That dealer would like to treat this as a typical limited run special order making their normal profit margin.

The sticking point is that the BF trademark will only be lent out if the dealer will not make any profit (noting the knife manufacturer is allowed to financially benefit)

The other 'rules' (such as a price ceiling) really have no meaning if there is no BF knife produced due to the aforementioned restriction.

So, normally in a business situation like this, wouldn't the dealer and the trademark owner come to an agreement on the use of the trademark?
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Yes. No. Maybe.

From some of our perspectives, it would seem a Win-Win for both the manufacturer and the owner of BladeForums (and it may well turn out to be). But it would indeed be a business deal and we're not players in that part.

I would hate for there not to be a 2018 Forum Knife. As others have noted, we've been here before... perilously close to not continuing the tradition. Save for the work (initiated several years ago and continuing to last year's knife) by Charlie, Barry, Liam and others and, importantly, the blessings of Spark, the tradition continued.

I'm very grateful for their efforts and I'm grateful for skblades stepping up this year.

Hope for the best.
 
The part of the spirit of non commercialization of this sub forum by craftsman and dealers, seems to have been somewhat diluted over the years. It's right there in the rules, makers could show their works, if the knife was already sold/ commissioned. Threads were not to be made discussing for sale projects etc. this sub forum was supposed to be about the knives... Slippery slope...

As for Spark and why he has laid down the law regarding any forum knife bearing his company logo, I can't fault him one bit for wanting final say, and any profits garnered from such an endeavor, this forum, this company, is his baby. If anything were to go sideways in any way shape or form, such a thing could taint the brand, in the eyes of the involved folks on the purchasing end, through no fault or control of his... Can't say I blame him.
 
For what it’s worth @skblades while there may not be profit in this run, I buy the bulk of my knives from Barry and Mike specifically because of their involvement in this subforum, and the risks they are willing to take for the good of the traditional knife community. Could pay dividends in some new customers. But I don’t actually know anything about business, so I just may be spouting off here.
 
So... rules is rules. I respect @skblades needing to make a profit and I respect @Spark wanting to protect what he has created. I now also have a tremendous amount more respect for those who have taken up this endeavor in the past, my hat is off to y’all!
I would like to pose a question. I understand the rules apply to a “Bladeforums” stamped/branded piece of merchandise. Does that also include a “porch” stamped blade? Could skblades put together a run of 301’s (yes I’m biased for the 301) stamped with the nickname of this sub forum? Or does Mr. Spark own the rights to that nickname as well?
Just a question......
 
Camillus said:
The essence of the current situation seems to be that we would like a BF knife. So far only Buck is interested in producing one. We need a dealer prepared to volunteer their time, we have found one. That dealer would like to treat this as a typical limited run special order making their normal profit margin.
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I wouldn't say this is necessarily true. GEC would be more than happy to provide us with a forum knife, I am sure. However, they do not have a forum presence here and we do not currently have a liaison in place to lobby or organize on our behalf with them. Charlie and Barry have taken up that torch in the last few years but have seemingly stepped back this time around. I do not blame them one bit, the amount of work, risk, and such that they have undergone and endured is staggering and I commend their repeated efforts.

This repeated notion that only Buck is interested is kind of misleading. GEC simply doesn't have a voice here and Charlie is not their employee. If someone wanted to take on the role as liaison and see what GEC might have to offer, I do not think anyone is stopping that from happening.

I laud @skblades' efforts and contributions in this thread, I think it speaks highly of your willingness to jump in the fray and help get this sorted. Even so, you are a business and if you cannot justify the expenses involved with the logistics of organizing an SFO with no expectation of profit, I can certainly understand your reluctance to take on such a risk.

I do not know what the answer is here but I have mostly adopted a "wait and see" sort of perspective.
 
jwb01 said:
I understand the rules apply to a “Bladeforums” stamped/branded piece of merchandise. Does that also include a “porch” stamped blade? Could skblades put together a run of 301’s (yes I’m biased for the 301) stamped with the nickname of this sub forum?
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This crossed my mind as well. While not the same as the Traditional subforum knife with its tang stamp and history (most of which predates me, as my join date makes clear), a "Porch" or "The Porch" tang stamp/shield etch/whatnot could be a neat middle ground.
 
Dadpool said:
This crossed my mind as well. While not the same as the Traditional subforum knife with its tang stamp and history (most of which predates me, as my join date makes clear), a "Porch" or "The Porch" tang stamp/shield etch/whatnot could be a neat middle ground.
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Same thing crossed my mind about some alternative stamp that would still make it a unique run that nobody else would do. I like "The Porch".
 
meako said:
1.it gets mentioned and question is asked.
2.wishful thinking phase .very specific configurations are tabled.
3.will anyone do it?
3.5 long period of dark territory .
4.our hero arrives to save the day
4.5 long period of dark territory .
5.polling of choices regarding blades,steel,scales.
6.democratic final decision.
7.lots of whining and saying "im not getting one because i dont like it,too expensive,not what i specifically wanted.etc etc"
8.orders taken and money paid.
9.the winter of the wait begins.
10. Everyone else in the world takes delivery.
10.5.I take delivery of mine
11. "I missed out where do I get one?" phase begins.
12. Profieering vulture phase begins.

Did I miss anything?
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cbr1000 said:
4. Multiple hero's arrive to save the day
4.25 Confusion
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meako said:
Amendment to section 3.5
3.6 Minor scuffling and fractiousness between porcheteers. Due to stress of dark territory.
meako said:
Amendment 3.7
Formation of angry mob to storm the lair of the Baron and his henchman.
Pitchforks and burning torches available upon entry at the Canadian border.
BYO Bloodhounds. (always a favourite)
Amendment 7.1
Full analysis and debate of all known steels, pull strengths, grinds and scale materials and all possible combinatipns thereof.
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meako said:
Amendment 3.8
Bloodhounds detect the scent of a troll en route to old mill . Usually found lurking in dark territory.
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Gentlemen Gentlemen
My Lords and Ladies
I propose that clause 7 of the BFTAFK manifesto be struck from the record!!
and re inserted as sub clause 4.6.

Secondly I propose that the P&T (pitchfork and torch) touring party refrain from any more pitstops and proceed directly to stately Spark manor whereupon our duly nominated spokesmobster shall rap thrice upon the counter and ask him if any of this is ok with him.
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Gentlemen Gentlemen
My Lords and Ladies
I propose that clause 7 of the BFTAFK manifesto be struck from the record!!
and re inserted as sub clause 4.6.

Secondly I propose that the P&T (pitchfork and torch) touring party refrain from any more pitstops and proceed directly to stately Spark manor whereupon our duly nominated spokesmobster shall rap thrice upon the counter and ask him if any of this is ok with him.And No I dont care if anyone needs to "go" we all had plenty of opportunity back at the shop.
 
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