2018 BF Traditional Knife

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Buck has their own forum on Bladeforums.com and although GEC does not have their own forum, anyone that spends time here knows that they have a HUGE presence among the forum members. I think anyone with business savvy can view this as an advertising forum for them... in fact you can see business forming for some dealers in this very thread. I know they have membership costs and possible other costs that I do not know about as a manufacturer or dealer, however Buck and GEC have both indirectly benefited from having a large presence on Bladeforums.com so it seems to me like donating their time to satisfy 250 people is a small price to pay to use this pathway to the world and to show appreciation to those on The Porch. One hand washes the other and it seems like only GEC has wanted to take that extra step in previous years and based on what I have been reading in this thread, the traditional forum folks appreciate immensely the efforts of Charlie and Barry for previous Traditional Forum knives. It's unfair to expect them to burden that load every year and I think Charlie expressed that in his first response saying he is a bit burned out right now especially just coming off of the Oregon show. So it's time for someone else to step up and I challenge Buck to do that. There is 40+ pages of Buck love in this thread and it would go a long way for them to step up and put a BladeForum stamp on 250 knives.

- Kevin
 
@meako, thank you for your contributions to this thread. :D

This post was my personal favorite:

Yaairp Ol Rattlers treed a few trolls in his time.
Now has everybody got a pitchfork or flaming torch?
If you don't have a too small hat dont worry.
Theres an angry mob outfitters right near spooky Nordweg castle.We go there every year. see
And please! Can we all tuck our trousers into our socks before we leave.
If you are too elderly or feeble you can ride in the courtesy riketty old cart.
 
Eh, I guess if it doesn't say Bladeforums on the blade, kinda what's point?

I thought we were discussing this years BF knife. If that's not what I'm buying, then where's the tradition? Might as well spend my money on one of the other 743,608 knives I think look cool.
 
I’m interested in a Buck 301/303 offering, whether it is a BF annual knife or not.
Well, I guess if we're just discussing a custom built Buck folder then someone needs to start a NEW thread to discuss the 2018 Bladeforums Traditional Knife.

Did the snake just eat his tail? @meako please ready more jokes!
 
Though I'm only sitting at a computer screen, something physically palpable has just happened to this thread. I'm sure I am not eloquent enough to give a response perfectly, so I'll just go ahead and do my best and hope for grace if needed.

Hearing of the tradition outlined by @waynorth adds weight to the actions taken here. Also, the no profit rule has clearly shifted the game. I'm a guest over here with you all, the Buck Forum is my home, so I will tread as respectfully here as possible. Two options come to my mind for moving forward:

1. An Official Blade Forum Knife
SK can handle the communication between Buck and someone who would like to take on the volunteer position for the official Blade Forum Knife, can do so. That would shift the financial burden to the volunteer, as well as shipping and logistics. We could still use our dealer status with Buck to get the knife ordered and moving through the factory. This would still need the blessing of Spark.

2. A Buck Offering from SKBlades
We remove the Blade Forum logo, etching, stamp etc, from this knife and SK does what we do best. We facilitate a discussion for a Buck 301/303 with all the options already laid on the table, the two dot stamp being included. SK handles the financial burden, the logistics, and the shipping. This would not be "this year's forum knife" but rather an offering by SK built on the normal polling and discussions we have been doing for the last several years over in the Buck Sub.

I've sat and reflected on the recent thread posts, and talked them over with my business partners, and it makes very little business sense for SK to handle the financial burden (we are the original offerers for funding), logistics, and the risk in honor of what the tradition has been laid out to be. Personally I don't see how making a profit and creating something for the benefit of the community have to be mutually exclusive. We feel as though we offer both to the Buck Forum and have had a blast doing so. Ultimately, SK is a business and paying member of the forum to be so. Although the volunteer tradition is honorable, it is not something we are willing to do for such a large risk. The person or people that have done this in the past are to be given the utmost respect and thanks. The time and labor alone is monumental with such a large risk on the line.


Maybe ask Spark if he would accept a per knife $ amount for the use of the Bladeforums name and logo to allow you to produce a forum knife for profit? Just roll it into the cost.
 
I like that suggestion FLymon! That seems like a win win...
As for the knife itself, the box would be perfect to hold a Stockman with some CPM 154 FFG blades and stag covers:)
 
Maybe ask Spark if he would accept a per knife $ amount for the use of the Bladeforums name and logo to allow you to produce a forum knife for profit? Just roll it into the cost.
While I don't disagree with the logic of this, at this stage it could certainly be taken as a bit of a slap in the face to all the previous "volunteers" who have donated their time, effort, and risk to the cause for nothing more than a thanks. Seems a bit of a desperate request considering a large percentage of people chiming in to this thread would have favored another annual GEC knife from Charlie, for which he has seemingly earned nothing in the past.

Edited:
After a little more thought, I'll amend this slightly just to say if the rules of the game change at this point, then the game should be extended to allow other parties interested in making a profit on this venture to get back in. This could potentially forever change the annual knife selection process.

And I'll also clarify again that I have no vested interest in any particular person, dealer, or brand for the knife. I don't own any GEC or Buck knives (yet).
 
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Same thing crossed my mind about some alternative stamp that would still make it a unique run that nobody else would do. I like "The Porch".
Now that it's been brought up I think I'd actually prefer "the porch". Since it's a traditional subforum knife it would also make more sense. On the other hand it would of course break with the tradition.
 
Buck has their own forum on Bladeforums.com and although GEC does not have their own forum, anyone that spends time here knows that they have a HUGE presence among the forum members. I think anyone with business savvy can view this as an advertising forum for them... in fact you can see business forming for some dealers in this very thread. I know they have membership costs and possible other costs that I do not know about as a manufacturer or dealer, however Buck and GEC have both indirectly benefited from having a large presence on Bladeforums.com so it seems to me like donating their time to satisfy 250 people is a small price to pay to use this pathway to the world and to show appreciation to those on The Porch. One hand washes the other and it seems like only GEC has wanted to take that extra step in previous years and based on what I have been reading in this thread, the traditional forum folks appreciate immensely the efforts of Charlie and Barry for previous Traditional Forum knives. It's unfair to expect them to burden that load every year and I think Charlie expressed that in his first response saying he is a bit burned out right now especially just coming off of the Oregon show. So it's time for someone else to step up and I challenge Buck to do that. There is 40+ pages of Buck love in this thread and it would go a long way for them to step up and put a BladeForum stamp on 250 knives.

- Kevin

Believe me, the marketing aspect of being involved in this project is not lost on me or any other dealer considering putting their name in the ring.

A couple of points I would like to address. SK is not Buck Knives and Charlie is not GEC. We all need to remember that neither GEC nor Buck is "doing" anything with regards to the creation of this knife. Buck will take any order and build it as long as it's paid for, can be built, and meets the minimum. GEC will do the same. I can't speak directly for GEC, but if GEC is anything like Buck, it has not taken the "extra steps" or "donated time" and neither will Buck. For them, it's business, order in order out. Those extra steps and donated time belong to the dealers or liaisons, aka Charlie, Barry and many others, that put themselves between the forum and GEC. So it is correct that it would be unfair for Charlie & Co, to take that burden every year. Challenging Buck to step up to the plate would, for all intents and purposes, fall on deaf ears. What I mean by that, is that Buck has no play directly in what is happening. That challenge would rest directly on my shoulders as SK Blades. I would like to "step up to the plate" and have reached out first to Spark to see what can be done with keeping this tradition alive.

This community has been exceptional to me both personally and professionally and I am trying my darndest to make something work. As to the work involved in putting on something like this, you can ask Barry or Charlie what it takes. It is significant. Labor in sifting through forum member input, back and forth with the manufacturer, setting up shipping lanes for international members, actually carrying out shipping for 250 knives, cost of packaging materials, labels, tape, and extra staff hours is staggering. I'm not sure if you've ever shipped 50 knives in one day, but I have, and I can tell you it isn't a peach nor is it fast. Add between $25000 and $50,000 in potential financial risk for good measure. Anyone willing to do all that for free is a saint. Again my hat is off to those who have done this for last several years, it truly is incredible.

I love the 40+ pages of Buck love. It's great to see and encouraging, but not worth the man hours and money to take a financial loss for SK. To sum up, Buck isn't even a factor in stepping up, that falls on SK.
 
I know there's some features of the Traditional Subforum BladeForums Knife that are facing possible peril, and hopefully we can avoid that, but they're all things I'm personally willing to give up if it means ensuring we get a knife at all.

I haven't been here as long as many, but it seems to me that the true tradition is that Porch members come together to forge their ideas, opinions, experiences, and criterion into a physical representation of the friendship, generosity, kindness, and wisdom that only exist so prevalently here on the Porch - something I'm proud to be even the tiniest part of.

I'm not sure what options we will be voting on, but I for one, look forward to the spirited, respectful process that has become tradition on the Porch.

I'm very thankful to Charlie and Barry, and all those who have dedicated so much to ensure the tradition has continued to this point, and applaud/support skblades and/or anyone else who is willing to take the torch.
 
Now that it's been brought up I think I'd actually prefer "the porch". Since it's a traditional subforum knife it would also make more sense. On the other hand it would of course break with the tradition.

I would love for there to be an annual "Porch Knife." That would a fun tradition. But for myself, I have to say that I really hope we can close out the dots on the official Blade Forums Traditional Knife series before any transition happens. I am just all fingers and toes crossed over here. I also fear that an annual Porch Knife could spiral out of control _because_ there would be no higher authority. The forum knife is special in that it is community based, but the need for Spark approval serves as a control. It keeps there from being three different knives with "Porch Knife" on them, it keeps the knife pure in a way. I just worry a little about what could happen with a Porch Knife.

I mean, hey, if we can't have an official knife, sign me up for the Porch Knife, but I want the official knife.
 
Believe me, the marketing aspect of being involved in this project is not lost on me or any other dealer considering putting their name in the ring.

A couple of points I would like to address. SK is not Buck Knives and Charlie is not GEC. We all need to remember that neither GEC nor Buck is "doing" anything with regards to the creation of this knife. Buck will take any order and build it as long as it's paid for, can be built, and meets the minimum. GEC will do the same. I can't speak directly for GEC, but if GEC is anything like Buck, it has not taken the "extra steps" or "donated time" and neither will Buck. For them, it's business, order in order out. Those extra steps and donated time belong to the dealers or liaisons, aka Charlie, Barry and many others, that put themselves between the forum and GEC. So it is correct that it would be unfair for Charlie & Co, to take that burden every year. Challenging Buck to step up to the plate would, for all intents and purposes, fall on deaf ears. What I mean by that, is that Buck has no play directly in what is happening. That challenge would rest directly on my shoulders as SK Blades. I would like to "step up to the plate" and have reached out first to Spark to see what can be done with keeping this tradition alive.

This community has been exceptional to me both personally and professionally and I am trying my darndest to make something work. As to the work involved in putting on something like this, you can ask Barry or Charlie what it takes. It is significant. Labor in sifting through forum member input, back and forth with the manufacturer, setting up shipping lanes for international members, actually carrying out shipping for 250 knives, cost of packaging materials, labels, tape, and extra staff hours is staggering. I'm not sure if you've ever shipped 50 knives in one day, but I have, and I can tell you it isn't a peach nor is it fast. Add between $25000 and $50,000 in potential financial risk for good measure. Anyone willing to do all that for free is a saint. Again my hat is off to those who have done this for last several years, it truly is incredible.

I love the 40+ pages of Buck love. It's great to see and encouraging, but not worth the man hours and money to take a financial loss for SK. To sum up, Buck isn't even a factor in stepping up, that falls on SK.
I appreciate the insight and the response, as I am sure many others do as well.

One quick point that I would like to address is your following statement.
but not worth the man hours and money to take a financial loss for SK. To sum up, Buck isn't even a factor in stepping up, that falls on SK.
It has been said a few times now that a profit is not to be made. There is nothing stipulating that your costs cannot be covered. I know that there are things that many don't think of, like the payroll dedicated to the man hours spent figuring out how many people will be packaging knives for shipment. A simple task like this has to be thought out prior to, scheduled, and priced out as a whole, as opposed to doing it and seeing what it totals.
And this goes for every step of the project. It may seem like I am preaching to the choir here, but this was mostly to those that are not familiar with the inner workings that come into play.
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SK, what I am trying to express to you, is that while it may be a difficult decision to make, please do not feel that you should do so with the expectation of us not being willing and able to cover the costs associated.

You are not to make a profit, but you are also not expected to lose money.

Porch dwellers, Please allow some time for SKblades to figure out how much it should cost him.

Personally, due to his presence on Bladeforums, his willingness to help, openness, and character portrayed, I would be willing to prepay for my knife, so long as he is not losing funds, or overselling the total made.
 
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I salute your enthusiasm SK, but I have wondered several times during this thread if you were aware of the non-profit nature of this longstanding project. I thought about raising the issue, but didn't want to appear rude. I don't think any of the volunteers who have generously donated their time and labour to bring us previous forum knives has actually risked financial peril though, since the knives have always been paid for in advance. As my friend Bill above notes, the issue of covering costs is different to the issue of profit :thumbsup:

The reasons why Spark has a veto over this project should be obvious. In terms of trying to circumvent the rules here by producing a 'Porch' knife, which is effectively just a standard SFO, I strongly agree with abbydaddy abbydaddy above, and I would also consider the use of it in this way to be a total abuse of the term. Nothing to stop us all going out and buying a Case Peanut and scratching 'The Porch' on the side of course! ;) :D

I'd be surprised if Spark were unreceptive to a commercial proposition, but if there is merely a proposal on the table for a Buck SFO, then I think that might be better discussed in the Buck sub-forum. Hopefully, we can see a BF traditional knife produced this year, but that shouldn't be at any cost in my opinion, I'd sooner see the project paused until a proper BF traditional knife can be produced in the spirit of those which have gone before. I'm not that desperate for just another knife :thumbsup:
 
I salute your enthusiasm SK, but I have wondered several times during this thread if you were aware of the non-profit nature of this longstanding project. I thought about raising the issue, but didn't want to appear rude. I don't think any of the volunteers who have generously donated their time and labour to bring us previous forum knives has actually risked financial peril though, since the knives have always been paid for in advance. As my friend Bill above notes, the issue of covering costs is different to the issue of profit :thumbsup:

The reasons why Spark has a veto over this project should be obvious. In terms of trying to circumvent the rules here by producing a 'Porch' knife, which is effectively just a standard SFO, I strongly agree with abbydaddy abbydaddy above, and I would also consider the use of it in this way to be a total abuse of the term. Nothing to stop us all going out and buying a Case Peanut and scratching 'The Porch' on the side of course! ;) :D

I'd be surprised if Spark were unreceptive to a commercial proposition, but if there is merely a proposal on the table for a Buck SFO, then I think that might be better discussed in the Buck sub-forum. Hopefully, we can see a BF traditional knife produced this year, but that shouldn't be at any cost in my opinion, I'd sooner see the project paused until a proper BF traditional knife can be produced in the spirit of those which have gone before. I'm not that desperate for just another knife :thumbsup:
I can understand this, but if there is any trepidation based upon the belief that a 25k debt is the likely outcome, or even a 50/50 shot, then I would like to show that not the case.

By making some decisions prior to moving forward, I don't see how the risk for loss couldn't be limited, if not mitigated near entirely. Though by limiting the risk, we would also limit the supply based upon total orders placed, and the rate at which they occur.

Since SK stated that the minimum batch size was 100 pc., we will use that as our basis.

If SK were to set up a 100 pc order quota, then update the batch size by 50 as fitting orders were placed, minding a set order window per batch.
1) 100 knives ordered (minimum met, order to be placed)
2) 50 additional orders placed (batch total now 150)
3) 50 additional orders placed (batch total now 200)
4) 23 additional orders places (batch total still 200, 23 placed towards next batch. If 100 minimum now met, proceed back to step "1").

If the order timeframe was set for two weeks, and that lapsed in between items "2" and "3" then the next batch would already be at 73 pcs ordered.

Knives are to be paid for when the batch is submitted to Buck. If your knife is in that batch, you pay. If not, you do not.
* edit to add* This would also increase the likelihood of a higher number of earlier orders and less by those thinking they will be available for a longer period of time. Since they may get stuck in the group that does not make the it into production. On top of that, it may push those that are on the fence to order, since they will be rewarded by making a decision, rather than delaying one.

The order list would be held in order, so if anyone does not pay, this list will act as a will call list for folks already interested. This way, the knives unpaid for do not go to general public, and skblades skblades is not stuck with them and his costs are covered. This would also allow for those that are in the last group to land a knife, albeit a slim chance, but a chance nonetheless.
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Granted, this is just an idea off the top of my head, and I am open to input, ideas, thoughts, or concerns.

Edit to add the quote of where I got th "100" pc number from:
To address the quantity issue with Buck: 500 is definitely not the minimum. We have done runs as low as 100 with them. More standard is 200 and 250. I'd imagine it would be 250 since this would be a "brand new" configuration. I can confirm.
 
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I salute your enthusiasm SK, but I have wondered several times during this thread if you were aware of the non-profit nature of this longstanding project. I thought about raising the issue, but didn't want to appear rude. I don't think any of the volunteers who have generously donated their time and labour to bring us previous forum knives has actually risked financial peril though, since the knives have always been paid for in advance. As my friend Bill above notes, the issue of covering costs is different to the issue of profit :thumbsup:

The reasons why Spark has a veto over this project should be obvious. In terms of trying to circumvent the rules here by producing a 'Porch' knife, which is effectively just a standard SFO, I strongly agree with abbydaddy abbydaddy above, and I would also consider the use of it in this way to be a total abuse of the term. Nothing to stop us all going out and buying a Case Peanut and scratching 'The Porch' on the side of course! ;) :D

I'd be surprised if Spark were unreceptive to a commercial proposition, but if there is merely a proposal on the table for a Buck SFO, then I think that might be better discussed in the Buck sub-forum. Hopefully, we can see a BF traditional knife produced this year, but that shouldn't be at any cost in my opinion, I'd sooner see the project paused until a proper BF traditional knife can be produced in the spirit of those which have gone before. I'm not that desperate for just another knife :thumbsup:
Mr. Jack,
Thank you for that thoughtful response. That answers my question in the way I was hoping for. The term “the porch” is a term of endearment that was coined long before my arrival here. If the long standing members who have had a hand in making this great sub forum into “the porch” view using that term in this manner as “ an abuse” then I will as well. I hope my attempt to encourage this community to circumvent the rules ( and that is what it was, I do that a lot in my work) did not offend anyone here. Apologies if it did.

Thanks much,
Josh
 
Mr. Jack,
Thank you for that thoughtful response. That answers my question in the way I was hoping for. The term “the porch” is a term of endearment that was coined long before my arrival here. If the long standing members who have had a hand in making this great sub forum into “the porch” view using that term in this manner as “ an abuse” then I will as well. I hope my attempt to encourage this community to circumvent the rules ( and that is what it was, I do that a lot in my work) did not offend anyone here. Apologies if it did.

Thanks much,
Josh

You certainly didn't offend me Josh, it's great to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions :) :thumbsup:
 
Perhaps setting up a Porch "tip jar" for whoever has to deal with making the knife happen each year could become part of the tradition. There is a lot of generosity in this subforum, and if the rules say the knife has to be sold at no-profit, that doesn't mean the members couldn't show their gratitude in another way.
 
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