Important Info! 2019 Forum Knife : Poll Schedule / Content

So this being the last day of the wood and shield polls, are we done after this afternoon, or are there any provisional polls that are applicable? I'd be interested in a lanyard tube option, but don't know if that involves any special re-tooling for this frame/knife. Other than that I can't think of anything else that's been mentioned.
 
I can't help but feel that if Mr. Howard were more forthcoming as to his reasoning for his restrictions on our forum knife instead of leaving it up to speculation, there would be a lot less criticism.

I'll just be straight up with you. As much as people like to argue and second-guess here on the forum, it is a terrible idea to try and explain yourself here. I wouldn't ask him to exert the time or energy it would take to defend his reasons / guidelines here - which is exactly what he would have to do. A few years back ( I don't even remember the issue ) I talked him into publishing an explanation from his point of view. It wasn't until then I understood what he was talking about as it spun into something that only BF could turn it into. As I said I don't remember the issue, but I do remember thinking to myself that I would never ask him to do it again!

We have a great group of folks here of BF. But it has become a great group of folks that will try and solve issues or give feedback on issues to which their level of expertise is what they picked up over 5 minutes of googling. So, a five page thread of people trying to tell a factory why they should do this or should do that will do nothing but alienate people (one way or the other). So, I give 100% support to GEC having little / no presence on a forum that has the propensity to be so abrasive at times. We have seen it right here in this thread. Some people don't respond to belligerent and spiteful messages in a cordial and loving way - those people shouldn't frequent social media even though these circumstances would be few and far between. It is a little different for a grumpy old knife hoarder sitting it a house somewhere; but for a business it is a true gamble to be active. Look around this sub-forum at how many dealers / factories post on a frequent basis - they are all smarter than I am.

It's his money, it's his company, and he's done a pretty good job while everybody is going bankrupt. I think I will just trust him to it and buy the knives or not buy the knives.
 
So this being the last day of the wood and shield polls, are we done after this afternoon, or are there any provisional polls that are applicable? I'd be interested in a lanyard tube option, but don't know if that involves any special re-tooling for this frame/knife. Other than that I can't think of anything else that's been mentioned.

At this point I have seen no issue that would need to be resolved in a provisional poll. It takes a different spring / liners for a tube. Same for EO notch.
 
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A little eye candy.. An old, real deal NF. Not my knife and I don't recall where I found the pic. Drop the pen blade & it looks for all the world like the next BF knife.
 
I'll just be straight up with you. As much as people like to argue and second-guess here on the forum, it is a terrible idea to try and explain yourself here. I wouldn't ask him to exert the time or energy it would take to defend his reasons / guidelines here - which is exactly what he would have to do. A few years back ( I don't even remember the issue ) I talked him into publishing an explanation from his point of view. It wasn't until then I understood what he was talking about as it spun into something that only BF could turn it into. As I said I don't remember the issue, but I do remember thinking to myself that I would never ask him to do it again!

We have a great group of folks here of BF. But it has become a great group of folks that will try and solve issues or give feedback on issues to which their level of expertise is what they picked up over 5 minutes of googling. So, a five page thread of people trying to tell a factory why they should do this or should do that will do nothing but alienate people (one way or the other). So, I give 100% support to GEC having little / no presence on a forum that has the propensity to be so abrasive at times. We have seen it right here in this thread. Some people don't respond to belligerent and spiteful messages in a cordial and loving way - those people shouldn't frequent social media even though these circumstances would be few and far between. It is a little different for a grumpy old knife hoarder sitting it a house somewhere; but for a business it is a true gamble to be active. Look around this sub-forum at how many dealers / factories post on a frequent basis - they are all smarter than I am.

It's his money, it's his company, and he's done a pretty good job while everybody is going bankrupt. I think I will just trust him to it and buy the knives or not buy the knives.

At the end of the day the only real decision or question we should be asking and that question should be to ourselves....Do I want the knife or do I not?
 
knifeswapper knifeswapper
@knarfeng

I think Mike said it all better then I can.

I will add that Frank and I have been moderating this forum for 8 or so years now. Every year we've asked ourselves if last years knife was the last one. So far someone has stepped up every year to make this happen, and Frank and I have always expressed our thanks and gratitude to that individual. This year it's Mike and again we express our thanks and gratitude for his time spent in this endeavour.

The additional work it makes for me and Frank is nothing compared to the time Mike has spent, and will spend in making this happen. All for no compensation.

I've said it before and I'll say it now. This process brings out the absolute worst in a lot of people. You know who you are. I wish I could say "No soup for you!". If this is the last year for a forum knife, so be it. We all know why.

The bottom line is, if you don't like the knife don't buy it! If the polls didn't go your way or the factory offerings are not to your liking go spend your time somewhere else and let the rest of us enjoy the process.
 
Perhaps in the future (if there is another one) you could open the poll, but have no comments allowed. That way everyone comes in and votes for what they want with no negative comments or persuasion tactics. It is kind of hard to open an opinion poll and ask people to comment and then not expect them to express how they really feel. I am sure some comments have been out of line, but that really comes with the territory. There will always be winners and losers in a polling situation. People will be disappointed and have hard feelings, its human nature. I have yet to see a poll that is open for comments not be contentious at some point. Maybe the poll only option could solve that. Just a thought.
 
knifeswapper knifeswapper
@knarfeng

I think Mike said it all better then I can.

I will add that Frank and I have been moderating this forum for 8 or so years now. Every year we've asked ourselves if last years knife was the last one. So far someone has stepped up every year to make this happen, and Frank and I have always expressed our thanks and gratitude to that individual. This year it's Mike and again we express our thanks and gratitude for his time spent in this endeavour.

The additional work it makes for me and Frank is nothing compared to the time Mike has spent, and will spend in making this happen. All for no compensation.

I've said it before and I'll say it now. This process brings out the absolute worst in a lot of people. You know who you are. I wish I could say "No soup for you!". If this is the last year for a forum knife, so be it. We all know why.

The bottom line is, if you don't like the knife don't buy it! If the polls didn't go your way or the factory offerings are not to your liking go spend your time somewhere else and let the rest of us enjoy the process.
Amen!
 
Perhaps in the future (if there is another one) you could open the poll, but have no comments allowed. That way everyone comes in and votes for what they want with no negative comments or persuasion tactics. It is kind of hard to open an opinion poll and ask people to comment and then not expect them to express how they really feel. I am sure some comments have been out of line, but that really comes with the territory. There will always be winners and losers in a polling situation. People will be disappointed and have hard feelings, its human nature. I have yet to see a poll that is open for comments not be contentious at some point. Maybe the poll only option could solve that. Just a thought.
Some people were just downright rude. There's no excuse for that. And a few would not stop complaining, which I do not understand. As Gary said, if they do not like the knife, don't buy it, and "spend your time somewhere else and let the rest of us enjoy the process."
 
how about as an alternative "bottom line", if you really like the the knife alot, buy 2 - that's what I intend to do if possible
 
Thanks for everyone's hard work - especially Mike. This was a lot of fun this year. I enjoyed it other that the political stuff about wood species that popped up over the past couple days. That wasn't very fun and was all old news anyway. Happens every year for some reason.. someone starts quoting CITES like regs just came out yesterday. Anyway, overall it was a lot of fun.
 
Some people were just downright rude. There's no excuse for that. And a few would not stop complaining, which I do not understand. As Gary said, if they do not like the knife, don't buy it, and "spend your time somewhere else and let the rest of us enjoy the process."

I get that and agree that rudeness should not be tolerated, but the idea that you either buy the knife or don't is not really a realistic option. If someone came in and said here is the 2019 BF knife, where it's ready to go and there was no selection process involved, then the idea of "buy it or don't" would apply. But, when you are asking people to be involved in every step of the process then I don't think that logic applies.

Also the idea that people want to enjoy the process without being bothered by disappointed people is also a little unrealistic, it just isn't going to happen. The disappointed people want to enjoy the process too, they just don't because they are not getting what they want. As long as you allow opinion to be expressed then you will have to deal with the good and the bad. Poll only makes it a smoother, quicker, and less contentions process. Just my opinion (that doesn't count for much).

I will say that its been interesting, as this was my first time participating in this process in this sub-forum. I would like to express my appreciation for the people that make this kind of thing happen. Thank you.
 
I get that and agree that rudeness should not be tolerated, but the idea that you either buy the knife or don't is not really a realistic option. If someone came in and said here is the 2019 BF knife, where it's ready to go and there was no selection process involved, then the idea of "buy it or don't" would apply. But, when you are asking people to be involved in every step of the process then I don't think that logic applies.

Also the idea that people want to enjoy the process without being bothered by disappointed people is also a little unrealistic, it just isn't going to happen. The disappointed people want to enjoy the process too, they just don't because they are not getting what they want. As long as you allow opinion to be expressed then you will have to deal with the good and the bad. Just my opinion (that doesn't count for much).

I will say that its been interesting, as this was my first time participating in this process in this sub-forum, and I would like to express my thatnsk for the people that make this kind of thing happen. Thank you.
Some good points. But disappointment can be expressed without insulting others. Also, there is no excuse for continuously complaining about a sabre grind sheepsfoot; we knew that was what the blade was going to be at the beginning. Nothing wrong with expecting people to act with decorum.
 
knifeswapper knifeswapper
@knarfeng

I think Mike said it all better then I can.

I will add that Frank and I have been moderating this forum for 8 or so years now. Every year we've asked ourselves if last years knife was the last one. So far someone has stepped up every year to make this happen, and Frank and I have always expressed our thanks and gratitude to that individual. This year it's Mike and again we express our thanks and gratitude for his time spent in this endeavour.

The additional work it makes for me and Frank is nothing compared to the time Mike has spent, and will spend in making this happen. All for no compensation.

I've said it before and I'll say it now. This process brings out the absolute worst in a lot of people. You know who you are. I wish I could say "No soup for you!". If this is the last year for a forum knife, so be it. We all know why.

The bottom line is, if you don't like the knife don't buy it! If the polls didn't go your way or the factory offerings are not to your liking go spend your time somewhere else and let the rest of us enjoy the process.
I vote we are all charged an extra dollar and that money goes to paying for a knife for Mike.
 
There's nothing wrong with disagreeing and stating why. There is nothing wrong with lobbying for your choice with comments and examples. A spirited discussion can be a lot of fun. Some of the posts in these threads have made me think, some have made me laugh, some have made me want to throw my laptop at the wall. If this were a run of the mill discussion thread, it would be closed by now.
There is a right way and a wrong way to post in this forum. If someone doesn't recognize the difference, they haven't spent much time here or just don't care, and frankly they're welcome to post somewhere else.
 
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One of my favorite movies is 12 Angry Men. It is a little ham-fisted and the characters are stock rather than real, but as a morality play on the jury system it doesn't get much more illustrative, concise, and compelling.

The first reaction of any human comes from prejudice. Prejudices are natural defenses against real dangers, but they are often wrongly directed. When you mix in a process that is inherently prejudicial -- voting for a desired object, activity, political candidate, etc. -- then it is even harder for people to curb their prejudicial reactions. Some people try and learn from their mistakes, but whether people try to learn or not, other people, like Juror #8 in 12 Angry Men, have to be there to step in and be willing to take abuse, suffer social scorn, and still stand up for the process of decision-making in a free society.

I think the moderators do a fine job of allowing members to help one another recognize when they've crossed the line until it becomes apparent that the ones interacting have lost their own composure or self-restraint and need an authority to step in.

I realize that the process of creating and buying a forum knife is a minor experience in the grand scheme of things, but it partakes in some of the foundational aspects of a free association of men and women. There are times when I really wish our living social systems operated more like an online forum where people could hash things out face-to-face with experienced moderators keeping the peace.

There is something humanizing about being able to argue passionately for one's own beliefs or viewpoints with another human being and walk away with mutual respect. The online form removes some of the natural inhibitions that face-to-face interaction produces in most people (though it avoids the physical altercations that can sometimes result!), but I have been more surprised and encouraged by the cohesiveness community of the Porch than I have been shocked at some of the overreactions.
 
I actually think that this year has been relatively peaceful in comparison to some other years. :eek::p. But I think that just goes to show how good of a job that Mike did in choosing our possible options this year, and designing the polls appropriately.
 
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