2020 prices

[sovereign]

So then whats the point in the increases? Wouldn't the base MAP implementation plus the yearly increases we've had already be good enough?

What has been alluded to in these threads over the years since MAP was introduced is that Spyderco is under threat from dealers that they will not carry the brand (or as many models) unless they get the guaranteed margin and freedom from price competition that they demand. Now they want more. Where will it end? When MSRP equals MAP?

As for the yearly price increases at wholesale and reflected in the MSRP, that is the money that goes to Spyderco.

 

[RamZar]

Is there also an MSRP increase coming for 2020?

Good question.

 

[RamZar]

Another pressure on end user prices has come the past year where some dealers are charging sales tax for some ship to States on sales outside of the dealers' home States. For me this means an additional 9.5%!

 

[Sal Glesser]

If one is doing long time calculations, you must also include the valuation changes of currency like the Yen, which was 240/1.00 when we began, has gone up to 90/1.00 and still fluctuates. There are some models that are awash due to higher maker costs, tariffs or other unexpected changes.

sal

 

[AF]

Still a big Spyderco fan although I buy much fewer these days for a variety of reasons.
My $.02, Spyderco is competing well with their refined designs, sprints/exclusives and consistently optimal heat treatments. Their attentiveness and participation on these forums gives many of us a good feeling about Spyderco. Of course higher prices will impact volumes.
The Chinese manufacturers have made huge inroads over the past few years. It appears they are really putting the squeeze on companies like ZT. Hopefully Spyderco can continue to innovate and retain a large customer base.

 

[RamZar]

If one is doing long time calculations, you must also include the valuation changes of currency like the Yen, which was 240/1.00 when we began, has gone up to 90/1.00 and still fluctuates. There are some models that are awash due to higher maker costs, tariffs or other unexpected changes.

sal

True. That's why I only used the example of the US-made Military with US materials.

 

[whp]

If one is doing long time calculations, you must also include the valuation changes of currency like the Yen, which was 240/1.00 when we began, has gone up to 90/1.00 and still fluctuates. There are some models that are awash due to higher maker costs, tariffs or other unexpected changes.

sal

I can see how increased costs would raise the MSRP. But raising the MAP just goes to retailers, if I understand the concept correctly. I know Spyderco has to compete with other brands. And I know that the MAP for ZT and BM is a higher percentage of MSRP than the 65% for Spyderco. But I think Spyderco can compete with these brands based on its quality and still keep their retailers with the current MAP percentage. I doubt many knife retailers interested in the knife market enough to carry Spyderco will drop them because of their MAP. And those that would aren t really competitive anyway.
I also know that the MSRP can be adjusted to cover market and business costs.

Please consider maintaining the current level of MAP to appeal to those of us who think that value for the price is one of Spyderco s market leading advantages.

Best regards.

 

[on_the_edge]

The problem with the Corvette analogy is that there’s a lot more technology in the 2020 Vette versus the 1992 model. My Military from 2005 has exactly the same American steel and G-10 as the current model at about half the price. I plugged in what I paid in 2005 for my Military into a US Inflation Calculator and it says it should now be $135.84 compared with the soon to be actual $192.50.

How about looking at it another way...

You take $103.09 and set it aside in 2005. Instead of buying that knife, you invest it and make 4.25% interest compounded annually without adding a single penny to the principal amount except what you make in interest. Do you know what you'd have in 2020?

$192.47

Go figure!

 

[onionfan]

I love Spyderco, and have for a long time. Carrying a GB1 along with my xm-18 and leatherman tool today....but I will admit that the price increases over the last few years have pushed my knife buying to higher and lower priced knives. Example: before the Advocate was discontinued and discounted I considered buying one. Price was around $245 I think. But there are several knives a step up in overall quality (in reality or perceived quality, opinions vary) that I had always wanted that were around $450. I decided that I would rather buy one of them than 2 Spydercos. And for quality knives on the cheap I started buying more from Buck. I still buy/use/gift Spyderco knives, but the middle of the road pricing has made me reevaluate my knife purchases. I do appreciate that Sal and crew have not outsourced everything to China and when I do buy their knives I prefer the Golden, Seki, or Taichung ones.

 

[Candycane]

Please try to understand that prices go up when costs go up. Map is the result of trying to keep the distribution chain working. We believe that charging as much as the market will bear is biting the hand that feeds you so we always try to keep the prices as low as we can and still run a successful business. We want you to purchase our products and enjoy them. We hope that you feel you are getting good value for your hard earned money. None of us here are driving Ferrari's.

sal

You may not be driving Ferrari's, but you deserve to be if you so choose! Always happy to splurge on your knives as needed! Just picked up a Kapara - masterpiece of design and craftsmanship.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Another thought is that many of our knives actually appreciate in value over time. Even those that were sold at a less expensive price if disco'd. Knives like the Bob Lum "Darn Dao", the Claycomb "Bushcraft/Proficient", and the "Respect" are effective designs made with exceptional materials and high quality that will end up being short runs that will be very difficult to find 10-20 years from now. Try to find a "PIG" Police and see what that is worth now.

sal

 

[brj]

Lately (circa 2 years back) I've decided I would only buy 'must have's and not 'nice-to-have's anymore. For example, throughout 2019 I only bought 6 knives, 4 of them being Spydercos (Ikuchi, Native Chief, Kapara, Police 4 LW). In practical terms, that means I would most likely afford to buy a new knife every 2 months, if I deem it a 'must have', regardless of changes in manufacturers' policies or any other variables. YMMV of course, but to me it is a validated mechanism to ensure things don't move past an 'acceptable' budget.

 

[Jack3dBrett]

All I know is I got my first PM2 back in 2012 for $104. They now retail for $140. A $36 increase over 7 years. Basically $5 a year. Id like to see a $3 increase per year instead. What is expensive and not expensive is totally relative though from person to person. $150 for a sharp edged tool that should last 10 plus years is a good investment in my eyes. Problem is most of us knife nuts want many knives and there in lies the issue. Hard to justify multiple purchases with the inflating prices. No need to get mad at the company though because they can charge whatever they want and as the consumer you have the right to purchase whatever you want. Spyderco and any company will keep inflating the prices until they find the thresh hold of what the consumer is willing to spend. I know for a fact that theyve lost sales due to this but has it been at all detrimental? Remains to be seen but doubtful imo. Its just they way it is in business and we would all do the same with our own companies. Still a HUGE fan of Spyderco and just makes the ones I do buy that much more valuable to me.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Jack,

I agree with you. It seems like a lot to us as well. We work on relatively fixed margins. We sometimes make less for a variety of reasons, but I don't think we're using price "to make more profit". As I've said before, we believe that "charging as much as the market will bear is biting the hand that feeds you". We need to be able to keep our good people, buy equipment, grow, and try our best to please our customers.

We make a fairly large variety of designs and materials because our customer base is quite varied, and because we're able to, for which we feel fortunate.

sal

 

[jstn]

Hi Jack,

I agree with you. It seems like a lot to us as well. We work on relatively fixed margins. We sometimes make less for a variety of reasons, but I don't think we're using price "to make more profit". As I've said before, we believe that "charging as much as the market will bear is biting the hand that feeds you". We need to be able to keep our good people, buy equipment, grow, and try our best to please our customers.

We make a fairly large variety of designs and materials because our customer base is quite varied, and because we're able to, for which we feel fortunate.

sal

You guys keep up the good work, Sal! Even with an increase, your prices are more than fair. I rarely buy a folder other than Spyderco, and when I do, I usually regret it.

 

[RamZar]

Another thought is that many of our knives actually appreciate in value over time. Even those that were sold at a less expensive price if disco'd. Knives like the Bob Lum "Darn Dao", the Claycomb "Bushcraft/Proficient", and the "Respect" are effective designs made with exceptional materials and high quality that will end up being short runs that will be very difficult to find 10-20 years from now. Try to find a "PIG" Police and see what that is worth now.

sal

Yes, like you said, if you get them at discontinued pricing. Many, like the Taichung models, with just one batch being made and they're gone for good.

A good example is the Spyderco Slysz Bowie which used to sell for a street price of $280 new (less at discontinued pricing) at dealers and now it's selling for $475+ on eBay.

I can see a couple of other Taichung folders which are very pricey right now being discontinued at an attractive price and only one batch being produced:

Spyderco Rassenti Paysan Integral Frame Lock Knife
MSRP: $800.00
MAP Price: $520.00

Spyderco Sinkevich Drunken Frame Lock Knife Carbon Fiber
MSRP: $630.00
Street Price: $409.50

 

[Candycane]

Yes, like you said, if you get them at discontinued pricing. Many, like the Taichung models, with just one batch being made and they're gone for good.

A good example is the Spyderco Slysz Bowie which used to sell for a street price of $280 new (less at discontinued pricing) at dealers and now it's selling for $475+ on eBay.

I can see a couple of other Taichung folders which are very pricey right now being discontinued at an attractive price and only one batch being produced:

Spyderco Rassenti Paysan Integral Frame Lock Knife
MSRP: $800.00
MAP Price: $520.00

Spyderco Sinkevich Drunken Frame Lock Knife Carbon Fiber
MSRP: $630.00
Street Price: $409.50

Exactly. Speaking the of the Slysz Bowie, it seems that the sole reason for the insane demand for that knife (well, acknowledging that it's a great knife) is that "The Nick" has spoken so highly about it. Why not satisfy some of the demand and do another run of them? I'd think that you could sell a good number of them, however, I can't even begin to understand the economics for Spyderco to make this happen, so maybe it's not a great idea. Almost seems like if it was going to happen it would have already.

 

[cbrstar]

I have a feeling one of the true purposes of map is "False Hype" It's the whole "You better run out and buy it now before you can't get it"

 

[on_the_edge]

Yes, like you said, if you get them at discontinued pricing. Many, like the Taichung models, with just one batch being made and they're gone for good.

A good example is the Spyderco Slysz Bowie which used to sell for a street price of $280 new (less at discontinued pricing) at dealers and now it's selling for $475+ on eBay.

I can see a couple of other Taichung folders which are very pricey right now being discontinued at an attractive price and only one batch being produced:

Spyderco Rassenti Paysan Integral Frame Lock Knife
MSRP: $800.00
MAP Price: $520.00

Spyderco Sinkevich Drunken Frame Lock Knife Carbon Fiber
MSRP: $630.00
Street Price: $409.50

 

[BMCGear]

KnivesShipFree is the dealer that stopped carrying Spyderco and did a feature about it in Knifenews. They claimed they couldn't compete with Amazon.

At that time I bought my Spydercos from Jeff at the Cutlery Shoppe. He usually had the best prices but on the occasion he didn't I still purchased from him because of his CS. He was competitive in pricing and CS. Now he has to lock into the same price everyone else has. MAP sucks and it kills the free market. It benefits no one but the dealer. It is their insurance.

And companies won't budge on MAP even privately which is the norm in the music industry.