Spyderco " 204-freehanding " — Tri-Angle Sharpmaker stones & more

How it's done, you're asking?:rolleyes:

Well, you sit on a chair at your office desk;), resting your left hand/wrist/palm/fist on the desktop, holding one end of your 1x 204F somehow to your liking with three fingers, comfortably. The other end of the 204F sits on the desk, maybe with a rag in between for noise reduction. The stone's flat side should point upwards. It is not necessary to hold the stone very firmly, it is actually quite easy/effortless to hold the narrow triangle stone more or less steady, flat side pointing upwards. What matters is not that the flat side is steady relative to the horizontal desktop but that it is steady relative to the contacting knife edge: if the stone tilts/turns a few degrees (because it is not held in 100% fixed position by your left hand/fingers) and the knife edge is tilted/turned by the exact same amount (because it is the contacting knife which produced the tilting/turning of the stone in the first place!), then there is no harm done, as you realize; btw this phenomeon is exploited in the WorkSharp GSS with its pivot response. The rest is history: you take the knife in your right hand, place the knife edge at your preferred angle on the stone, exert notable pressure :thumbsup:, and move the blade rapidly back and forth within a small range of the stone, and then work along the entire blade length and the entire stone length. This creates a burr. Even on the 204UF (or the GREEN10000 for that matter) the burr should be easily detectable with your thumb; if you can't feel the burr with your thumb, then there is no burr. That simple. Once you've created the burr along the entire knife edge, you flip the blade, do rapid back and forth movements (this is called sharpening, isn't it?:D), creating a burr on the opposite side. Now you've apexed the edge and you can proceed with burr reduction, burr removal, progressing with the 204UF, or leather stropping. The rapid back'n forth movements under pressure is key here: it creates a burr in no time. And it's what you cannot really do conveniently, if you use the 204F conventionally, i.e. in the Sharpmaker; some users do something similar/equivalent, (slowish) up'n down movements, in the Sharpmaker but i prefer the 204-freehanding for it.

The goal is to apex the knife edge (and minimize the burr). And i am telling you that 204-freehanding (or ruixin-freehanding for that matter) costs less time and efforts to get there than using the Sharpmaker blindly following the conventional instructions from the manual or using the Sharpmaker at all. With the 204-freehanding you can feel the pressure in your left hand/fingers and thereby better control the sharpening process, like with a leather strop in your left hand you effectively control the sharpening with 2 hands, your body/arms/hands position always feels comfortable, etc etc.

I will continue making use of the 204-stones this way. It is imho perfect for edge maintenance (and it doesn't create a micro bevel!). No more conventional Sharpmaker usage for me! No more.

If you're inspired or motivated to abandon the Sharpmaker and transition to 204-freehanding too, then ... :eek: :p
 
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Today I am writing about cleaning. A board search on the topic suggests that most/all people use the cleaning method from the printed manual: cleaning the rods in the kitchen sink with a scouring pad (3M Scotch-Brite, etc) and a white scrubbing powder (COMET, ATA, BAR KEEPERS FRIEND, AJAX, etc).

I tried a scouring sponge with washing-up liquid (FAIRY, PALMOLIVE, PRIL, etc), with baking soda, and with liquid soap. Neither of three really worked. I didn't try the aforementioned 'white scrubbing powder' and I didn't feel like rubbing with an eraser, but that's okay, .

My preferred cleaning method is the following (and i am not saying that the regular Sharpmaker user should try it too!):

Simply put a few droplets of clear oil on the rod, then go ahead with the 204-freehanding. You'll notice that the stone does not get loaded but all the metal dust gets transported into the oil, producing a 'slimy' black film which stays on top of the knife edge (or at the knife edge). When you're done with the sharpenig, one swipe with a piece of toilet paper is sufficient to wipe the oil off the stone and leave the stone incredibly clean, wow!

Possible explanation of the phenomenon: It seems that the oil has a saturating effect and prevents the microporous surface of the stone from getting clogged up with metal dust. The metal abrasions do not enter the stone surface but stay afloat in the slimy film. Underneath the film, the stone surface is basically clean!

Be it as it may, there is another huge advantage of using oil on the Spyderco stones. The abrasive effect of the stone remains constant (unlike dry sharpening), feels smooth/clean, and you can feel every remaining bit of the burr better. Even with alternating strokes on the 204UF it could take quite a while until every last bit of the burr (created by the 204-freehanding) is gone: on an oily 204UF, during 204-freehanding, the stone tells you exactly that!

The clear oil which i use is WAHL CLIPPER OIL, made in the USA. It is machine oil for my MOSER hair clipper and not as highly fluid as my CONNEX "Haushalt- und Feinmechaniköl harz- und säurefrei" which is as fluid as water:eek:. You could probably use any kind of clear oil, e.g. mineral oil or baby oil 941. Michael Christy likes NORTON oil because of the packaging format, the dispenser:


I like my WAHL oil because it is not running away on/from my stone or blade. Like slime. :p

In summary, the pro's and con's of using oil for 204-freehanding (not necessarily for conventional Sharpmaker usage):

Pro's:
  • lubricated smooth sharpening, feeling great
  • at the burr removal stage makes you feel every remaining bit of the burr
  • abrasive power of the stone remains constant, doesn't decline
  • all metal abrasions don't gather in the stone but in the oil only; one swipe with toilet paper proves it
  • easy to clean up. after that one swipe the stone is ready for storage
  • the oil usage and cleaning is imho not messy at all. your fingers stay dry and clean. you only end up with a (super) dirty piece of toilet paper which goes into the bin. kinda environment-friendly in my books!
  • clear oil is cheap (CONNEX costs 1.99€ for a 100ml dispenser), and the cleaning procedure is obviously much more effortless than carrying the stones to the kitchen sink, scrubbing with white powder, getting your hands wet, .. :D
Con's:
  • the oil could literally get in the way of your sight of the stone-edge-contact line/point; in practice this is not a problem though, if you are already familiar with freehanding or 204-freehanding. or simply don't use as much oil you *ool! ;)
  • this is not a con in practice, but it may well be true that scrubbing with white powder would get your stones even cleaner than the one swipe with a toilet paper :rolleyes:

By the way, in general any conventional Sharpmaker user could try to use oil as pre-cleaning agent, before he goes to the kitchen sink. Simply place a droplet on the dry clogged stone, then rub the stone with a piece of toilet paper. You'll be amazed how fast the stone looks pretty clean again! Oil as cleaning agent on the 204 stones is more effective than water, soapy water, liquid detergent, rubbing alcohol, or baking soda. After the cleaning with oil, the stone is as clean as it needs to be (for me, or for the 204-freehanding). If you need absolut perfect cleanness of the stones "Like New", then sure go ahead to your kitchen sink and proceed, no problem :cool:

If a reader adopts oil in his usage of Sharpmaker-cleaning or for 204-freehanding, then writing this post was well worth it. Thanks for your attention, appreciated! :thumbsup:
 
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Bar Keeper's Friend is the best for cleaning ceramic stones of anything I've ever tried. BTW, what is happening with the oil on your rods is the steel particles are being suspended in it. If you keep things moving, they don't have a chance to settle to the hone's surface. The viscosity of the oil slows the settling of the swarf, and constant movement keeps it suspended. If you wipe the surface soon after honing, most of the steel comes away with the oil.
 
Bar Keeper's Friend is the best for cleaning ceramic stones of anything I've ever tried. BTW, what is happening with the oil on your rods is the steel particles are being suspended in it. If you keep things moving, they don't have a chance to settle to the hone's surface. The viscosity of the oil slows the settling of the swarf, and constant movement keeps it suspended. If you wipe the surface soon after honing, most of the steel comes away with the oil.

Nice thing about the oil also, even after some of the swarf settles onto the surface of the stone, you can 'lift' a lot of it again, just by adding a little more oil and rubbing the surface with a fingertip. You'll see the 'dirty' stuff being floated in the oil again. Then mop it up with a microfiber towel. It's actually pretty impressive how well this works.

The WAHL Clipper Oil is so-called 'white mineral oil' (100%), BTW. Same as 'sewing machine oil', and the same grade is also used for lubricating things like paper shredders and food-processing equipment. Norton's Sharpening Stone Oil is also in the same category. 'White' mineral oil is a lighter-viscosity grade than something like the stuff used as an 'intestinal lubricant' (laxative), which is heavier.

I've noticed some ceramic hones will hold onto embedded swarf more tenaciously than other stones, even if used with some oil. Some 'white' ceramics (Fine/UF/etc) may need some of the BKF treatment after a while. But BKF handles that job exceedingly well. Use dish detergent & HOT water, or some Windex, to clean the oil residue from the hone. Then give it the BKF treatment.
 
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Yep, that's pretty much how I clean them. Add more oil and scrub with paper towel. Repeat until it comes away clean.
 
Bar Keeper's Friend is the best for cleaning ceramic stones of anything I've ever tried.
Thanks for the advice. We don't really have that product in our country, unless i mail-order it from an overseas shipper. I want to:p assume that it does not perform better than what we already have, the nationwide famous ATA invented by Henkel. Anyway, cleaning with BKF still looks like some efforts in my books, apart from environmental concerns (steel nano shavings in your drain water, etc):

Ever since i tried using oil on 204/302 stones, i do both sharpening and cleaning with it. Never looked back. ( Btw all oil which i use in my sessions gets soaked into toilet paper (or kitchen roll paper) which then lands in my trash can, together with all metal shavings/slurry from my stones. No slurry, no metal shavings, no oil enters my drain. I was taught to respect the environment ymmv. )
 
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Yes it sure does perform better. That guy in the video doesn't know what he's doing. Cleaning with BKF is almost effortless when it's done right. What he should be doing is making a paste with the BKF and water and spreading it around the ceramic then letting it sit for 5 minutes so the oxalic acid can do its job and dissolve the steel a bit. Once the oxalic acid does its thing the rest of the steel will pretty much wipe right off because it's been loosened up. None of the other cleansers I know of contain oxalic acid - that's the most important part.
 
Chipped the ends on a few of my stones, but nothing else. I am pretty fussy with my gear, and like to very careful with it. I never place the rods on the table or bench, I always lay them on paper or cardboard.
 
I always lay them on paper or cardboard.
I don't do this anymore because on my desktop it is easier for me to accidentally toss a piece of cardboard\paper with\without something on it than knocking over a stone which lies directly on my cutting mat, somewhere far from my hands\elbows:D
 
How it's done, you're asking?:rolleyes:
i've finally created some footage (demo) of the method, see the edited OP.
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Since nobody asked :p, here is how i have come to employ my Spyderco stones:

204M:
  • not in regular use anymore, not needed anymore
  • occasionally used for filing a sharpening notch in a standard utility blade
  • rarely used for gardening tools
  • or for blades with a recurve
204F:
  • not needed anymore
  • or for blades with a recurve
204UF:
  • used only for 204-freehanding in conjunction with the 204MF box (see video from the OP)
  • touching up of: EDC-sized knives with regular blade shape
  • touching up of: Vinox SAK's, and Vinox & LM multitools
  • or for blades with a recurve
302UF:
  • full sharpening of: any-sized knife with a straight edge blade (e.g. standard utility blades)
  • full sharpening of: big/medium/small kitchen knives
  • full sharpening of: any knife in lesser, undamaged blade steel with regular blade shape
Whatever i like to sharpen with the 204UF (say a PM2 S30V), i could sharpen on the 302UF too, in theory and in practice (and i wuv the 302UF!!). But for medium-sized knives, especially the ones with harder premium steels, getting to top results with the 204-freehanding method is more effortless than getting there with the 302UF; this may have something to do with the Pivot Response Technology:D which is absent on the 302UF machine. (A: "which machine plz? the 302uf is just a dumb stone!" — B: "thx for the insult 1859 :p"). Of course, the 302UF is the first choice for full sharpenings of any kind of steel simply because it does the task faster (more pressure, more grinding surface) than the 204UF.
 
Btw 204-freehanding is not the end of the story. Typically you'll end up with a microburr after the 204UF.
 
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.. i guess i enjoy sharing :rolleyes: my experience/observations from using my Spyderco stones long-term so plz bear with me, 3 things for today ..

1) So, for the last couple of weeks i've been polishing the Techno blade faces on the 302UF. Interesting experience. At some point i noticed the stone surface getting flatter and smoother, shinier - a phenomenon called "glazing", also known from cheap ABS keycaps in the mechanical keyboard communities: ABS keys are matt and grippy when brand-new but they shine up fast, wear down, losing grip already after few hours of type races. By the reflection of my headlamp i can see which section of the stone has not glazed yet, and for the photo i tried to make the non-glazed part i.e. the original striated surface visible (also marked with a red arrow):
img_20191218_174605xajqc.jpg

The key observation here is that glazing of the 302UF does happen fast, say within 3-5 minutes, when you polish a 2-D steel face (area contact) on it with typical rubbing pressure. A clean glazed 302UF surface is hardly useful anymore for polishing a blade face but it still cuts, of course, nicely for fine-sharpening a blade bevel ("302UUF") (line contact, point contact). Anyway i found the original machined/striated 302UF surface to be too fast cutting tbh and i can appreciate the now flatter/smoother stone. If i wanted the 302UUF to be faster cutting (for polishing or for sharpening purposes) again, i'd disperse 1 tiny(!) crumb of fast-cutting polishing compound (WHITE, BLUE, ORANGE) on the surface (with or without oil) and enjoy the new refreshed surficial cutting property (302UUF + dispersed crumb = 302UF). :thumbsup:

2) As @Sal Glesser hopefully could confirm, the cutting power of original 302UF and 204UF is notably different, even though both stones are labeled the same, "Spyderco UF"! The 302UF has a machined surface which is fast-cutting for various physical reasons, not only because of the striation. In contrast, the 204UF has a non-machined ubersmooth surface which originates from the cast moulding process; it is not fast-cutting. The 302UUF comes closer to the performance of the 204UF, if at all. With that in mind i can't tell the notable difference between 204UF and 204F (yet). Let's leave that for another 2923 post.

3) the above photo also shows how i use the stone, my setup: i place the stone on top of the black box with a wetted custom-cut window cleaning vileda in between for maximum grip (friction). the box height gives me just enough knuckle clearance. and during storage the vileda fills in the voids inside the box so that the stone wouldn't wiggle waggle around or hit the plastic walls (shock, scratches, impact), see photo below; it's actually great carry protection. if i were the product manager, i would have released the 302-seriez with an included vileda cloth, branded Spyderco, to invite the buyer to use the stone in the same way as seen in the above photo: the black box isn't only a storage case but also serves very well as a minimum-height benchstone "holder" in combination with the cloth. for (my) reference, the vileda cloth which i use is labeled "vileda PROFESSIONAL RaumProfi 3391".
img_20191220_1915576tkoo.jpg
 
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That's the first I've heard of Spyderco UF stones being different; it would explain conflicting reports I've received about those. Where did you learn this? I would like to see Sal's statement on this.
 
image.jpeg I have and use Sharpmakers, but I like the speed and versatility of my home made jig. One side is set to 15 degrees off vertical, the other to 20 degrees. When using the rig, I rotate it 180 degrees to sharpen the opposite bevel. Stone changes are fast because they are held in place by gravity. Many sizes and types can be accommodated. The stone shown is a 3" X 8" Shapton Glass.
I can adjust the angle to 1/10 of a degree using an angle cube.
 
M Mr.Wizard Nice find, thanks for sharing! True, i see some common principle, the "privot response technology" (quoted marketing BS :poop: by Work Sharp). Some people hold their stone, or leather strop, or KME in the left hand instead of leaving it on the table desktop. Same same. As long as the contacting angle between surface and tool stays the same, all these flexible approaches are valid.

Btw which is your preferred way of sharpening? You seem to be interested in guided sharpening systems. Imho they are great for experiencing and thus learning the principles and for setting fantastic geometrically accurate bevels (Tormeks can do that too) but in the long run the operation is rather tedious and energy-draining. In contrast, after a quick resharpening session with 204UF or 302UF (nowadays always followed by a hard deburring strop) i feel pumped, satisfied, and energized .. like waking up from a power-nap! Even with the same knife, every session feels different because one introduces flexibility in the movements, angles, focus, progressions, strategies, approaches, corrections, results, and one feels the natural urge (natural ambition) to improve in one of the three aspects: sharpness, session total time, blade steel consumption. So it is a fun self-challenge to have past best times in mind and keep the current session within that success range .. , in other words, to not mess up with the chosen 3400 strategy. :D

Freehanding is much more suitable for occupational therapy. Never boring. Creates focus. Loving it! :cool:
 
K kreisler I use a mix of non-powered methods. (I would use power too if I had a place for the dust.) My "system" is an Edge Pro, but I also use the stones hand held. I have a couple of full size bench stones but I only use them on blades with built-in guides (Japanese wide bevels, straight razors) or for a particular finish after thinning with wet-or-dry sandpaper. I use the Edge Pro when pretty bevels (e.g. other people's knives) or ultimate sharpness are important, and freehand my own working blades—especially small ones.
 
3) the above photo also shows how i use the stone, my setup: i place the stone on top of the black box
I can't be the only one to employ the 302 plastic carry case (storage box) as stone holder/elevation. Anywho i've been exerting much pressure, like my upper body weighto_O, on the stone on the box for grinding, polishing, or burnishing some metal workpieces. Not until recently did i notice that the entire box had been developing a massive permanent plastic bowing deformation wth. Of course, the stone itself never got bent but the central-ish downward pressure on the box caused the box to bend/bow concavely underneath the stone nonetheless. Apart from looking ugly, really out of mean-flat shape, it was thinkable that the plastic material could crack or break:

box3mkj2.gif


Now i've turned the box upside down, stuck some small rubber feet underneath the center as spacer, and put a stack of heavy books on top of the box, trying to bend the box back to mean-flat shape. It looks like it is working. Day after day i am checking how the plasticity is doing. This is the set of 3M rubber feet (incl. 3 feet sizes) which the local ACTION shop sells for laughing 0.89€:

pads35k0r.jpg


Says "3M 9448A" on de back of either pad size aha. So maybe 3M isn't the manufacturer of the rubber feet after all what do you think? In any case i put these feet on both top and bottom faces of all my Spyderco plastic boxes.

Next logical question would be: Why is the 302 case sporting 4 rubber feet anyway? Maybe so that the box doesn't slip off your desktop? Oh i see. Or maybe so that the box has a secure stand when you use it as stone holder/elevation? Be it as it may, once the box is bent back to mean flatness, i am going to stick 2 or 4 feet at the central area for additional support of the bottom face. With a total of then 6-8 feet, it will be impossible for the box to develop a bowing deformation again, let alone break under my upper body weight.

Maybe you guys don't exert much pressure on the stone or simply don't care about the shape of the plastic box. Fair enough. :rolleyes: But this bowing deformation incident reminds me of my 4.5lb :eek: heavy IBM Model M mechanical keyboard which was developing a bowing self-deformation over time, also because of missing central supporting feet. The deformation was very massive and ugly here too, and an imho absolute nogo for such a timeless beautiful expensive daily tool. I had fixed the situation with a whole bunch of new diy support pads and rather 'areal' than 'punctual' ones. Looks like an ugly (harmless) mod but it achieves self-flattening over time, and at some point i could replace the diy pads with a multitude of 3M feet to back the bottom plate evenly and not only at the 4 corners:

img_20200313_121328njk2a.jpg


You think that adding central pads is being a*al? I think it's idea worth spreading, 3951 thanks! ;)
 
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