.22 Mag for the wife??

B

Bolt

Joined
Aug 28, 2007
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Hey everyone, I was wondering your thoughts on me getting my wife a 22Mag for self-defense. It would most likely be revolver, with Crimson Trace grips. I have daughters that are just learning to shoot, and I also am aware of the stopping power debates. I own 9mm, 38spl, 357, and 45acp, but my wife does not enjoy dealing with any recoil. She is fine with using a gun, and I would prefer her to grab something she is not scared to shoot. Any gun is better than no gun. I know that there is the whole attacker can still come at you even after being hit issue, but really, she would only be using it in the home, the dogs would be there, and once the red dot comes out, who keeps coming after you? She has a rem 12 ga. but it scares her too. I just want to get her something that she can grab with confidence, and use if need be. All the stopping power debates aside, NO ONE wants to get shot. So, what do you guys think? Any recommendations? I am getting a Ruger 380 LCP with CT and may let her try it, but they are snappy and I know she won't like it. Any recommendations?
 
22 mag is a lot more spendy that 22 LR, if that matters to you. Probably not in the application you are talking about. And there are many more 22 LR revolvers out there to choose from, vs. 22 mag. Just something to consider.
 
 
The 22 mag looses a lot of its potential in a pistol. So get her a heavier 38 to soften the recoil. That LCR has a wonderful trigger on it but it will misfeed if you limp wrist it and it does have a snappy recoil. The LCP is a little pricier but the perceived recoil is (due to the grip) much tamer. I think I'd try an L frame 38 with a@ 4" barrel before the 22 mag though. Have her shoot the standard 38s in it (no +P). If that is to much for her move on to the 22 mag with a 6" barrel. She will still have to deal with muzzle flash at night but the recoil will be reduced. Hornady is coming out with a 22 mag critical defense round that will probably give 1200 FPS out of a 6" revolver and they say it has a reduced muzzle flash.
 
I carried a black widow 4" barrel in 22mag until it was stolen out of my truck. I have always thought this to be the perfect round for the vehicle as whatever I am shooting at will be very close. I always use rat shot as the first shot. I know the 22 mag rat shot is a joke, however, I want to draw blood and I increase my chances considerably with the increased number of shot. My second round is always a hot hollow point. Remember anyone that has not been shot at is very likely to be shaking in the type of situation that will require the use of a gun for self defense. If you increase the odds of a hit with increased # of shot then she will likley have time to escape or at least cause enough of a pause to fire the second shot or ward the attacker off. I keep a 410 with bird shot in the house for the same reason. The wife knows, draw blood and run. This will 1. leave me the DNA to follow up 2. give me or the cops time to finish the job.
 
Have you looked into Kel-Tec's PMR30? 30 rounds of 22mag, it self adjusts to heavier/lighter loads and has an accessory/light rail. Gun Tests magazine gave it a positive review.
 
For a practical self defence revolver for the wife- something she can carry

Yes she should be comfortable practising with it, it should be fun

It should also be capable of stopping an attack against her.

I say, a nice 38 special revolver that she likes, let her pick from a selection that you pre approve so she has input in the decision.
Let it be pink, let her make it "hers"
get nice grips & port it to reduce felt recoil, get a nice double action trigger job on it so it's easy to shoot well

Really, really weak hand-loads or practice loads are available.
Gradually work up the power with her skills

Once she has confidence and carries it, use +p loads that perform well for SD
If she ever has to use it, the adrenaline & familiarity means recoil and controllability wont' be an issue.





In home
Only hits count & a pistol is hard to hit with especially in a high stress situation.
(watch Top Shot, experts miss half the time and they aren't afraid of getting raped or killed.

I say for her in the house, a shortened 20 gauge shotgun, a good reliable autoloader, forget magnum shells
a remington 11-87 comes to mind.
1 oz of buckshot in my chest would stop me just fine.

I say auto for 2 reasons
1. it softens recoil
2. it's too easy to short stroke a pump

again, buy it for HER- not for you.
Get it cut down in stock and barrel to fit her and make it easy to use inside the house.
(you can always replace stocks and barrels later if you need to.)
let her make it hers, it's not yours - get it powder coated pink, or whatever it takes.
get a good recoil pad on there
maybe put a recoil reducing stock insert inside.
Put a flashlight on it or something- flashlights will help you ID the target & not shoot the kids.


Go out and use it, make it fun plinking, cans, bowling pins, whatever.
 
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just an observation of a couple of older ladies I've worked with at the range...

if not a "gun person" and strength or recoil sensitivity is an issue, an autoloader is much easier to learn to shoot...

double action guns are much more difficult for a novice to learn to shoot...trigger pull on most double action revolvers is in the 6 plus pound range, and reach to the trigger is typically longer

autoloaders are typically more accurate as there is no step down bullet sizing due to a poorly reamed chamber, poor forcing cone reaming, and no mis alignment between cylinder and barrel

downside to autoloader was that if in a moment of perciption of need and they charged the pistol, then decided they did not need to use the pistol for defense they had a problem clearing the chambered round safely...for that I suggested a Beretta M86 with the tip up barrel...

what worked for most of the ladies was a 4" Ruger Mark I or II.....22lr all steel frame.... I don't have one in front of me, but on the older pistols you could chamber a round by working the charging handle, without manipulating the slide release.... the heel magazine release worked well, and not having another button on the receiver for a mag release was one less thing for them to worry about.... and the magazine butt pads did not catch your hand like the plastic Mark IIIs, 22/45

I had them buy at least 3 magazines, and number them...loaded only two rounds...insert into pistol with empty chamber... painted quarter sized dots on the back of an IPSC target (25)...pick up pistol, charge pistol, shoot two well aimed shots at a dot... remove mag, and lower bolt on empty chamber... repeat untill all 50 shots are within the dots at 7yd....then move to further distance...if any magazine malfunctioned for any reason, throw it away and buy another....the early undercut sights I would have them cut to a Patridge profile... one of my "gunfighters" sheepishly asked if the black dots represented eye sockets....yes mam...
 
She has to want to shoot it.
Training is key.
I wouldn't want to get shot with a 22 mag.
If she is not a gun person revolvers are great.
I would suggest a 4 inch barrel.
Criminals are cowards, you start shooting they will run.
 
I wouldn't even go up to .22mag if you're thinking about a snubby. .22lr with stinger or velociters from CCI should be only a few FPS off from the magnums in a 1.5" barrel like that, and much cheaper to practice with.

If it were all my wife could shoot or use, I wouldn't hesitate to arm her with a .22lr, but I would try EVERYTHING before that. S&W makes nice 6 shot .32 magnum J-frames. There are also all sorts of auto pistols out there. My wife carries a Glock 19, and loves it. Before that, it was a 3" Ruger SP101 loaded with .38s.

Why don't you try that? The SP101 with .38 specials has about as much recoil as a lightweight .22lr. With a 3" barrel, they point like a finger.
 
Thanks for the reply's so far. I really like those Hornady rounds. Confidence, Practice, and a Crimson Trace Laser will go a long way when the poo hits the fan.
 
This is always a tough decision. I know most gun enthusiasts would scoff at anything less than 9mm/.38 special, but the shooter is the most important part of any self defense gun. You wife has to be comfortable shooting it, enjoy shooting, be accurate shooting it and of course the chosen pistol needs to be reliable.

A revolver is a good idea and if you can get a reliable one with an 8 or 9 round cylinder, that’s a pretty good capacity for unloading into a threat. I hesitate to recommend Taurus as they can have spotty performance, but I’ve shot their Tracker model in .22WRM and it was a fun piece.

Another option is Bersa’s little .22 autoloader. It’s only .22LR, but would allow faster reloading and a greater degree of static safety (it has the magazine disconnect which my wife likes on her Bersa .380).

I’m leery of rim-fires in a self-defense autoloader as they can have the great percentage of malfunctions and that’s not what you want when you’re already reducing the caliber and capacity. The reason I would recommend the Bersa is that the next step up is the Bersa Thunder in .380…a little more respectable than .22LR and my wife’s has had close to a thousand rounds through it and it’s been 100% reliable and quite accurate. She’s now considering 9mm…the more she shoots the better she handles “perceived” recoil and has been very comfortable with a commander sized .45 ACP. She also started out with my old Beretta 21A in .22LR and it served her well until she was ready to have her own CCW and larger caliber in .380.

Good luck and let us know what she ends up with.

ROCK6
 
Bolt, I'd like to you to consider a couple things before you make this purchase.

First, do you buy shoes for your wife? Of course not. If you did it would be all wrong! Shoes like firearms are a personal, very personal, decision and fit and style of shoes is just as important as fit and style (caliber) of a handgun. The reason many women cannot manipulate a handgun is because the handgun does not fit them and also because they use "this gun my husband bought for me" as an excuse to fail. I don't pretrend to know a lot about women but most women want to make their own choices and decision when it comes to saving their own life or the life of their children. They just want us men to guide them and support them but not influance them and most certainly not buy a gun for them.

I'd suggest, strongly suggest, you and your wife attend together at least one and better is two defensive small arms training classes together with a highly competent professional who has rental guns. Let her learn the proper and effective manual of arms with both a revolver and a semi-auto. Then after this training she will have more competence and CONFIDENCE and will have the neccessary information and skill to select her OWN personal defensive handgun in the caliber of her own choosing.

I also suggest you go to a website and buy both of Vicki Farnam's books on teaching women to shoot defensively. I've attended Vicki's course several times for men who work with women students and I can tell you it has changed my channel on training women in the defensive arts.

Les and others...the reason many women struggle with reciprocating a slide and/or locking it to the rear is because of an ineffective technique. Unfortunately many ranges, range officers, and even instructors fail to understand there are at least two variations for women to be able to effectively to rack and/or lock open any defensive semi-auto. These techniques are not widely known or taught but are extremely effective in helping women who struggle in becoming successful. And once mastered women, even petite women, can do these tasks with ease.

Now, Bolt, keep this in mind. Every state has a Police Training Academy. Approximately every 16 weeks a new class of student/cadets show up for training. Amongst these cadets are women - many who have never touched, seen, or even operated any firearm much less a defensive handgun. Many of these women are a size 2. And yet, they are issued a 9mm, 40, or .45 generally in a full size. They are not told "now this is too much gun for you"...and instead are told "at the completion of your training you'll be able to successfully qualify with this duty pistol and you'll have the confidence to defend yourself against a violent armed encounter." Women, even those fresh out of college and from the big city where guns are not common are successful with full size duty guns. They do not have the option to use a 6 shot .22LR revolver.

It is time to displace this conventional wisdom which is unfortunately so prevelant amongst men that women are weak, helpless, and incapable of shooting a compact, or even sub compact semi or revolver of a larger caliber and they must be relegated to the cute, petite, little .38 snub nose or .22LR revolver. I've seen people with major finger, hand, arm disablities shoot 9s, 40s, and 45s to success -the reason because the gun fit their hand, and because someone didn't whisper into their ear "this gun is too much for you."

Finally, Bolt I need to challenge your assumption "No one wants to be shot." While this is rationale and true for those of us who are not Violent Criminal Actors (VCA). VCAs are wired and programmed differently than us. Many are so highly motivated the fear of being shot or challenged by someone with a handgun is not a major concern for them. A handgun, any handgun is a poor fight stopper. And many VCA's have been shot with .22LR rifles (one in my local area) and after multiple hits continue to press the attack or leave and go home to tend to their wounds only to live and kill another day.

We know from many police and home owner actual cases what is most often required to stop a motivated VCA is a committed, dedicated trained person who can operate under stress and shoot the vital organs up the mid-line and do so multiple times in rapid succession and be prepared to execute a combat reload and continue. We carry handguns because they small, compact and convient and not because their effective. So shooting multiple rounds is a common practice - unfortunately.

Honestly if she is this timid, then you ought to seriously consider sending her to an Oleoresin Capsicum course (OC/Pepper Spray) and arm her with FOX OC and some Suedicon wipes. Or you could also have her invest in a C-2 Taser which is effective. Both OC and the Taser are going to be at least equal and most likely more effective than a .22LR handgun - especially if she isn't committed in training. And when I say "training" I'm not implying "just target shooting or breaking clay pigeons at a rock pit" - I'm implying real defensive handgun training we she is learning how to defend herself besides learn how to shoot.

This mindset of men who believe women are so helpless and incapable of managing something larger than a .22LR is just not reality. The reality is women are tougher than we give them credit for and if we assist them rather than "doing or buying for them" and we give them the skills and knowledge they need to make sensible realistic decisions then you'll find they'll generally make a better choice than we would for them. Don't ask me how I know this - but I do!
 
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Your going to get all kinds of advice about bumping up to the 38...Only you or her can decide if she'll be able to handle it...A 22mag out of a 4-5 inch revolver is no joke either and I feel its a step up from 22lr...If there is any chance she would be able to handle a 38 most definately bump up but if all she can handle is a 22mag...I'd get one with a 4 or 5 inch barrel since its going to be for the house...I believe my Taurus 22 mag holds eight rounds and my 22lr holds 9...Never had a problem with either one...

I baby the S&W kit gun and these two are my workers..
CD
 
I really want a S&W 352 PD for myself (field carry weapon and occasional concealed carry), but I don't think I would select that weapon for my wife though- a double action revolver w/ a short barrel (regardless of caliber) takes a lot of practice to be effective.

Is this something more geared for the home? if so I'd echo the suggestion of a shortened 20 gauge as well- this is a very effective home defense weapon

If it's for carry then I'd also echo the suggestion of having her take a formal handgun training course where she can handle a variety of weapons and then choose for herself which is most comfortable and confidence inspiring

I'm a firearms instructor and I usually look forward to instructing females as they tend to listen better, take instruction better and typically don't have a lot of bad habits that need broke :)
 
Quirt, thank you for the great advice. I will be looking for some local courses to attend if possible with my wife. I have so many variables where I live that I have to be very careful with my/her decision. A short barrel anything other than a pistol is illegal where I live. I am surrounded by anti-gun nuts. We are not even allowed to have a taser in the home. My luck, my wife would end up in jail the intruder would get injured and I would end up paying for his disability for the rest of my life. I also live in a town-home, so large calibers are out due to risk of neighbors or my kids in the other room. I know that my dog would deal with most of the initial threat, but he is not foolproof. He would at least by her some time to bunker in, call 911, and arm herself. I am overwhemeled with the options but all of your suggestions are helpful. Thanks.
 
Based on your above post I would triple the suggestion of a short barreled 20 gauge or even a .410 shotgun over a .22 magnum handgun. I would prefer a pump myself but maybe a Stoeger side by side would be easy to manipulate. I believe that by short barrel he is meaning an 18.5"-20" barrel as opposed to the 26-28" hunting barrel. Having a wife and two daughters myself I also agree with getting a shorter stock that fits them and a good recoil pad. It will probably not fit you at all. Use 000 buckshot in 20 gauge for self defense but practice with light bird shot. My 10 year old daughter shoots bird shot at cans out of her Mossberg 510 mini 20 gauge. A lot of the discomfort women and kids feel with shotguns is because the stock and barrel are too long for them to handle comfortably and they don't have a good cheek and shoulder weld.

The only problem is keeping it readily accessible for you wife but out of hands of kids.
 
My mothers defence gun is a Kel Tec PMR30. Im not a major fan of a 22mag for defence but 30 rounds of something she'll shoot is better than 10 rounds of something she wont.

Plus it has an rail on it and very nice sights.
 
w/ a 20 gauge in a town house, I'd probably opt for larger bird shot vs buck shot, still plenty to stop a threat w/ less chance of penetrating into the adjacent home
 
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