$250 for a taiwan knife?

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I am probably not going to say anything that hasn't been said. However. If the quality is there. Why in the world does it make a difference if the blade says " Golden Colorado USA Earth " or " Taichung Taiwan ". I understand supporting U.S.A. I love to support the US every chance I get. However if the quality is there, which in Taichung, it certainly is. Then I don't see how you can't still take pride in owner ship. I too think that Taichung has the highest QC out of the three plants Spyderco uses. Obviously Taichung takes pride in their manufacturing, or Spyderco wouldn't use them.
 
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If I'm paying that kind of money for a knife it should give me pride of ownership. I don't get that from knives from China or Taiwan.

From my perspective pride of ownership is related to factors like quality of materials, fit & finish, design, egonomics, etc. It has little to do with where the product came from and nothing to do with what others think of my purchase. Having said that, if I have the opportunity to support local manufacturers or businesses I will do so (that's why I purchase most of my knives from a local B&M and not the internet).
 
thats a good point. Even though ive all ready backed down on my previous arguments I think this can still be a good discussion on the topic. While I stated all ready (multiple times) that it has nothing to do with the fact that its made in taiwan, if I had to make a choice based on the origin of the company I would actually choose the kershaw way. So yes profits go to a japanese corporation. But I dont really care about that. I dont care about the company owners profits. I care about the little guy in america working for those companies. So id rather see 200 employees (and their families) benefiting from having a job from a japanese corporation than a couple families benefitting from a USA corporation that is outsourcing. I do realize spyderco does manufacure in the usa and they contribute to US jobs as well but as it was stated KAI is a much bigger corporation and therefore have more US jobs to offer.

So I personally would rather see spyderco expand or outsource work to USA companies rather than taiwan. But even then If it meant that they had to outsource to a company like Bear MGC where quality would certainly take a dive I would choose Taiwan instead. And I also realize that in todays economy its very hard to expand a USA company. But I fear that our US economy will never make a turn for the better if we continue to outsource. We lose jobs and without the US making goods for ourselves or for export that puts the power in the countries doing the manufacturing as they are now holding the cards. If we ever fell on really hard times or did something the rest of the world surely didnt agree with and trading embargo's became effective between us and asian countries we would be pretty screwed.

Are you at all familiar with Spyderco's history? In the 80's they started producing knives, all made by contract in Japan. The first US made Spyderco knife wasn't until ten years later, and it was made by Benchmade because Spyderco still didn't have a production facility of their own. Profits from knives made overseas funded the building of the Golden plant. Profits from knives made overseas allowed Sal to create jobs for American workers. Sal has worked with makers in Switzerland, Italy, Japan, Taiwan, China and the USA. As long as they can meet his standards, he will work with them, regardless of where in the world they are. The Taichung maker was chosen for the Sage project because they were one of a very few makers on the planet that could do all the locks involved, including the Compression lock, and they have the production capacity to make the models people are clamoring for now rather than waiting another few years. So when you say "Spyderco is sending production overseas", it isn't true. It has always been overseas, they just aren't bringing it home fast enough to suit you. Fine. Wire Sal a few million dollars and tell him to get cracking on that expansion. Or start up your own US knife company and show him how it's done.
 
Let's put this thread to bed. This issue has been discussed and rediscussed. On the other hand I can not wait to get my hands on a Sage.
 
Yes but Sal Also stated that the key to increasing profit margins is the exchange rate of US dollars to the Taiwan Dollar. So there is profit to be had in manufacturing there. Lets say a factory worker in the USA gets paid $15 and hour and the factory worker in Taiwan gets $15 taiwan dollars an hour. They get paid the same and its possible that they can buy the same things there with that same amount of money but if they took their $15 and came to america they would only have 50 cents. The US dollar is worth 30 times what a taiwan dollar is worth.

But its also been said that Spyderco has to pay shipping, duties and import export work which I know nothing about. Its weird though that governments charge duties on raw materials but it wouldnt surprise me all things considering. But still I think we can all agree spyderco wouldnt have done this if they were losing money. Just how much they are not loosing is the question.

You know what? I lived in Taiwan, and I got paid about US$43,000 per year before my retirement,
and the average paid for a skilled machine worker here is around US$26,000/yr to US$30,000/yr
 
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The quality is awesome from this plant and some of the profit still makes it to Golden. I'm ok with it, my 2 cents.
 
Are you at all familiar with Spyderco's history? In the 80's they started producing knives, all made by contract in Japan. The first US made Spyderco knife wasn't until ten years later, and it was made by Benchmade because Spyderco still didn't have a production facility of their own. Profits from knives made overseas funded the building of the Golden plant. Profits from knives made overseas allowed Sal to create jobs for American workers. Sal has worked with makers in Switzerland, Italy, Japan, Taiwan, China and the USA. As long as they can meet his standards, he will work with them, regardless of where in the world they are. The Taichung maker was chosen for the Sage project because they were one of a very few makers on the planet that could do all the locks involved, including the Compression lock, and they have the production capacity to make the models people are clamoring for now rather than waiting another few years. So when you say "Spyderco is sending production overseas", it isn't true. It has always been overseas, they just aren't bringing it home fast enough to suit you. Fine. Wire Sal a few million dollars and tell him to get cracking on that expansion. Or start up your own US knife company and show him how it's done.
Back in the early 90's when I first looked a Spyderco I thought it was a Japanese company. It wasn't until years later that I learned it was a US company.
 
If you dont like the price then don't buy it. I guarantee Sal will have no problems selling a metric tonne of them!

Spyderco Taiwan knives are the best when you look at fit and finish. So quit your whining. :)
 
If you dont like the price then don't buy it. I guarantee Sal will have no problems selling a metric tonne of them!

Spyderco Taiwan knives are the best when you look at fit and finish. So quit your whining. :)

I think you missed the part of the thread where we switched gears, stopped the insults and started discussing things maturely.

You know what? I lived in Taiwan, and I got paid about US$43,000 per year before my retirement,
and the average paid for a skilled machine worker here is around US$26,000/yr to US$30,000/yr

How much do workers cap off at right before they reach retirement? Im assuming though that when you say the average salary of skilled machine workers that your talking about the average of all levels of that job. From the person just starting to the person that has many years in the field. If that is the case the average of all those employees would be lower since the starting salaries for those new to machining would bring that number down. Im not trying to be a jerk, Im just trying to understand.


Are you at all familiar with Spyderco's history? In the 80's they started producing knives, all made by contract in Japan. The first US made Spyderco knife wasn't until ten years later, and it was made by Benchmade because Spyderco still didn't have a production facility of their own. Profits from knives made overseas funded the building of the Golden plant. Profits from knives made overseas allowed Sal to create jobs for American workers. Sal has worked with makers in Switzerland, Italy, Japan, Taiwan, China and the USA. As long as they can meet his standards, he will work with them, regardless of where in the world they are. The Taichung maker was chosen for the Sage project because they were one of a very few makers on the planet that could do all the locks involved, including the Compression lock, and they have the production capacity to make the models people are clamoring for now rather than waiting another few years. So when you say "Spyderco is sending production overseas", it isn't true. It has always been overseas, they just aren't bringing it home fast enough to suit you. Fine. Wire Sal a few million dollars and tell him to get cracking on that expansion. Or start up your own US knife company and show him how it's done.

My first spyderco was a Police model from the 90s made in seki city Japan. And a again, with as much respect as someone could have who has repeated themselves Ad nauseam, I have repeatedly said that my concern was NOT that it was a Taiwan knife. My concern was that it was a Taiwan knife at a price point that is at or above a comparable product made in the USA. I have no problem with overseas manufacturing. My guitar processors and probably some components in my amplifier are sourced from asian countries. My argument was that I didnt understand how a knife would warrant the $250 street price being a taiwan produced knife. Since the beginning of said discussion things were brought to my attention that have in fact swayed my position on the topic and I am no longer arguing this point.


From my perspective pride of ownership is related to factors like quality of materials, fit & finish, design, egonomics, etc. It has little to do with where the product came from and nothing to do with what others think of my purchase. Having said that, if I have the opportunity to support local manufacturers or businesses I will do so (that's why I purchase most of my knives from a local B&M and not the internet).

So for conversations sake. Lets say you were in the position to buy a ferrari. And you went to a dealership expecting to purchase an amazing hand built Italian supercar at around $250,000. Once you get to the dealership you start talking about the prestige of the brand and how much you have been wanting a ferrari because of its Italian heritage and the salesman informs you that the cars are no longer actually produced in Italy but are actually manufactured at a plant in Korea. They moved their production facility, machines and turned production into a mostly automated unit that will pump those cars out with greater precision and better fit and finish. Do you think most ferrari owners would still be comfortable putting out the same amount of money when even though that the product may have very well changed for the better and become more reliable has now lost a little of that prestige as being an italian car? Now if ferrari dropped the price of the car people might be able to swallow it a bit better. People have repeatedly told me in this thread that I dont understand how it works. You know what they are right I dont. But the majority of the buying public doesnt understand it either. So its not just me who is going to look at a $250 (street) knife and raise an eyebrow or two. I admit my tone and tact was way off in the beginning. And I have grown much more comfortable with the idea of this knife. I can understand and appreciate that die hard Spyderco fans will accept this as standard practice without batting an eyelash. But new products are also aimed at bringing in new business. Not just satisfying the existing customers. Any business selling tangible goods needs to gain new consumers to stay in the business as no one lives forever. But to do that people need to understand how any why things are the way they are.
 
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So as of today, the purchasing power of the US dollar is approximately 133% in Taiwan what it would be here in the States. I believe somebody nailed it a few pages back in other terms (hopefully an economist is in our midst and will chime in publicly). If that math is correct, the relative cost of goods and services in Taiwan is 75% of that in the USA. If things were black and white and there were no more information, one could venture a loose assumption that the flipper knife would cost $333 if manufactured in the US ---but it would probably be sloppy thinking to presume that there are no more considerations and that all Spyderco markup percentages are exactly equal. The quote from Sal that has been repeatedly referenced for us says that Spyderco's "margins are relatively fixed". Perhaps I misread the word "relatively" in this context, as others seem to read it as "definitively." Regardless of what profit margins Spyderco seeks, one thing I feel certainly is that the company is no evil empire.

Anyway, the thread is an interesting read. The irony of the pricing thing to me is that I had guessed the price of the flipper would be around $175; quite close to .75 of the asking price at the referenced dealer. I have nothing against Taiwan and am happy for their success but, if $250, the pricing of this partucular import is a little too rich for me so I'll leave one more for you dudes (but keep your fingers off my Taiwan Vallotten!-I need to get one of those :D).
 
Anyway, the thread is an interesting read. The irony of the pricing thing to me is that I had guessed the price of the flipper would be around $175; quite close to .75 of the asking price at the referenced dealer. I have nothing against Taiwan and am happy for their success but, if $250, the pricing of this partucular import is a little too rich for me so I'll leave one more for you dudes (but keep your fingers off my Taiwan Vallotten!-I need to get one of those :D).

Its MSRP is $399.99. Production (non sprint) Spydercos pretty much bottom out at a street price 60% of their MSRP (meaning $240 for the Southard) with 65-70% more common, while $175 is 43%
 
Its MSRP is $399.99. Production (non sprint) Spydercos pretty much bottom out at a street price 60% of their MSRP (meaning $240 for the Southard) with 65-70% more common, while $175 is 43%

And 75% of the asking price at the REFERENCED DEALER is $190, which is close to $175 which is what I said. So what is your post about?
 
And 75% of the asking price at the REFERENCED DEALER is $190, which is close to $175 which is what I said. So what is your post about?

Sorry, I looked through the posts before writing that and didn't see any dealer referenced. Google turned up a well known dealer listing msrp at $400, and that's what my post is about :)
 
Sorry, I looked through the posts before writing that and didn't see any dealer referenced. Google turned up a well known dealer listing msrp at $400, and that's what my post is about :)

Right on. Glad a reference to my post could clear that up. :thumbup:
 
There are a few Spyderco models that Sal has explained they are trying a lower profit margin to see if cheaper prices and increased sales will result in a profitable business model. This includes the standard Manix 2 and Para 2 and maybe some other models. How many other companies do you see lowering prices on their most popular models to see if they can still remain competitive and pay the bills?

From when Sal mentioned this I think I remember him stating this was the only real deviation from the fixed percentage markup that Spyderco employs. I would assume that is where the "relatively fixed" comment came from. I would try to find the quotes but I'm on a cell phone in the middle of the woods with little signal. Maybe someone else can dig it up if they are concerned.
 
Nice. Wish I was in the woods right now.

It's on page 3 of this thread.
 
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...The quote from Sal that has been repeatedly referenced for us says that Spyderco's "margins are relatively fixed". Perhaps I misread the word "relatively" in this context, as others seem to read it as "definitively." Regardless of what profit margins Spyderco seeks, one thing I feel certainly is that the company is no evil empire....

Glad to see someone has open eyes. In that post with all of Sal's quotes nearly all of them had some sort of qualifier attached.
 
A fixed profit margin applied to every product?...how many of you understand business?

A fixed profit margin for product type (e.g. sprint run, G10, ZDP vs. standard, FRN, VG-10) is more believable. Even then, many companies fix the margin on the overall cost, thus there is a higher margin for things that are produced in smaller numbers.

Maximizing profit is not "evil"...it's good business. You can do this by price, by managing costs, by volume, or by all three. The way a company sets prices and the profit a company makes on a specific product are often some of the most closely held business secrets of any firm.
 
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