3 1/2 lb head on a 28" haft?

[Curt Hal]

I know that pictures are always better, and I will post some as soon as I have them (the axe is soaking in BLO right now) but wanted to ask the question: I got a 3 1/2 lb HB head at an antique sale. The poll has been pounded so much that the eye has lost its original shape, fanning out wider on the left side (facing the butt) than on the right. The eye is larger than anything I have seen to begin with. I had a 36" haft, but the eye wasn't as long as the eye of the head. I did have a 28 inch haft (Truper) that fit the length of the eye, and I managed a snug fit at the shoulder. In spite of the fact that I generally don't like them, I used 2 round metal wedges to ensure a snug fit at the top.

My question is, would you advise using a 28" haft on a 3 1/2 lb. head? Some say that it is too short and could be dangerous in the hands of an inexperienced person. What's your best advise?

 

[gben]

This past summer I put a full-size Jersey head onto a boy-axe handle that is 28" just because I had them laying around. Yesterday I used it to hew two cherry boards out of a log and I did not cut myself once. This axe was very comfortable and handy to use. You are an adult, do whatever you feel like, just be careful. If you don't like it you can always take it off and put a different handle on.


You may have to custom make a handle, or have it custom made because most boy-axe handles are made for smaller eyes than are found in a standard axe head. I had a pile of 15 28" boy-axe handles to sort through which I found in a local warehouse and by luck one of them fit the Jersey with almost no hand-work needed.

 

[40oz]

I find that size to be dangerous, in that when the axe glances off the side of the target your leg or foot is likely in line to be struck. Some writers advocate using a boys axe while kneeling to avoid accidents, which I think is smart. The heavier the head the more grievous the injury.

I do think if one intends to use an axe while standing it should be longer rather than shorter. I really don't like the boys axe length now that I am an adult.

 

[gben]

I find that size to be dangerous, I do think if one intends to use an axe while standing it should be longer rather than shorter. I really don't like the boys axe length now that I am an adult.

For some people it is dangerous to chew gum and walk at the same time. If a boy's axe is dangerous for an adult to use, then using the same logic I guess nobody should use a hatchet while they are standing unless they are less than two years old......


Also head weight and injury severity are not directly linked. Given the same length handle, the same user will be able to swing a heavy head much more slowly than a light one.

Energy is mass times speed, so when a user swings his light axe head much faster than he can his heavy head they will hit the target with the same energy.

Logic and facts beat hearsay every time.

 

[Chignecto Woodsman]

How tall are you? I'm 6'2" and am mainly using a 3.5 on a 30" handle and a 4 on a 31" handle. I actually thought they were shorter than that. 28" may be good for you if you are average height or smaller. I'd use a 28" as well, but you do have to be more careful.

Just remember that your feet always have to be further away from the wood than your handle length plus the height of your cut, or your feet always have to be behind the cutting line. The 3/4 axe handle is perhaps the best for learning, just have to keep the safety in mind. The biggest dangers are when you cut the toe notch when felling (the one closest to you, because you often have to step much closer to the cutting line), or cutting at any height. If you glance a blow and the height of the cut allows the axe to travel the distance to your feet or shins then you're in trouble. This is the reason for cutting as low a stump as possible. When cutting branches or hung up trees on a trail, anything at height, all you can really do is hold back on your force and cut off to the side of your legs.

Safe cutting height is basically the knees or lower. But given the nature of the forest there are quite often undercuts where the ground dips significantly and you have to cut above the knee. Very dangerous if you get near the cutting line, and a good reason to learn swinging with your weaker hand.

Limiting the power of your swing in any potential glancing situation and keeping your legs back from the cutting line are the most important rules. Area just becomes tighter with a shorter handle. Same rules as knives really, always have a safe follow-through.

 

[40oz]

For some people it is dangerous to chew gum and walk at the same time. If a boy's axe is dangerous for an adult to use, then using the same logic I guess nobody should use a hatchet while they are standing unless they are less than two years old......


Also head weight and injury severity are not directly linked. Given the same length handle, the same user will be able to swing a heavy head much more slowly than a light one.

Energy is mass times speed, so when a user swings his light axe head much faster than he can his heavy head they will hit the target with the same energy.

Logic and facts beat hearsay every time.

Nice try charlie. A hatchet handle isn't long enough and the head isn't heavy enough to generate as much force as a 3.5 lb. axe head. It's much easier to control. And clearly a heavier head hits the target with significantly more force or we would all be using 2 ounce heads. You might not be able to swing a heavier head as fast as a lighter one but it still delivers more energy, assuming you have the muscle to put into it. Clearly a splitting maul would do far more damage to a body than a light boys axe, if a body were to get between the tool and the target.

Experience and rational thought trumps theory and internets every time.

 

[BG_Farmer]

I think length is as much preference as anything. House sells full sized handles in either curved or straight, so somebody uses them. I prefer 34" myself.

 

[Steve Tall]

Full-size axe heads on 28" (or shorter) handles have been sold as "rafting axes", "construction axes", and "miners axes" in the past, and are still being made today. More of a niche product for close quarters, loggers to use mainly for pounding in wedges, etc.

From a previous thread:

Here's one of my Plumb 5 lb. rafting axes with its original Permabond handle, 26".

http://www.counciltool.com/product.asp?pg=product&item=35MD20

3.5# Miner's Axe Dayton Pattern w/ 20" Handle

http://www.counciltool.com/product.asp?pg=product&item=40MD20

4# Dayton Pattern Miner's Axe w/ 20" Handle

Council makes those in a 26" straight handle too.

 

[Chignecto Woodsman]

I think most timbersports axes are in that 28-29" range.

 

[300Six]

It seems to me that 'what you're used to' or 'grew up with' pretty much dictates what's comfortable or considered normal. I don't see any harm in experimenting; that way you'll find out and know for sure. I tinkered with different length handles (whatever was on sale, or looked good!) in my very-much-younger days but gradually reverted back to conventional.

 

[DarthTaco123]

I use 3-4 lb heads on 28" hafts quite a bit. Just the comfortable length for me.

 

[killa_concept]

I think most timbersports axes are in that 28-29" range.

I think those are usually 32". Realistically, 36"+ isn't that useful a length outside of felling really thick trees or for splitting wood - at least in my opinion.


That said, it's all preference and what you practice with. If it feels comfortable, go for it. What's your height? That can be a big determining factor. I'm 5'4 and love a 28-31" handle.

Here's my 3 lb Jersey Keen Kutter back when I had it hung on a 28" straight haft. Did everything from fine carving:

to felling and bucking trees:

 

[Square_peg]

My question is, would you advise using a 28" haft on a 3 1/2 lb. head? Some say that it is too short and could be dangerous in the hands of an inexperienced person. What's your best advise?

I don't think it's dangerous. I just think it makes for a clunky axe. Too heavy of head for a short haft. Doesn't generate as much head speed during the swing as that weight axe would like. Some rafting axes were sold with shorter hafts than that - 26" - with a 4 or 5 pound head. But those axes specifically designed to be used as hammers or mauls. They had straight hafts and hardened polls. It was a compromise - you gave up some axe function to gain hammer function.

 

[gben]

Too heavy of head for a short haft. Doesn't generate as much head speed during the swing as that weight axe would like.

In my case I am 6"3" tall, 220+ pounds and I have pretty long arms compared to shorter people. I am sure I can generate as much speed with a 28" handle as someone much shorter can with a longer handle. Plus I have been using axes and mauls for over 40 years and have never hit and cut myself, so I must have learned something right.

In the end there can not be one rule to blanket every individual. If you look at True-Temper's 1967 catalog they sold 3.5 and 4 pound axes with 20" and 26" handles as "miner" and "constructor" models. If you want to try an axe with a short handle then do it, if it works great if it does not then try a different length. Nobody knows what is right for you and your situation.

 

[Chignecto Woodsman]

"I think those are usually 32""

A post on arboristsite by Arden Cogar Jr. says the Tuatahi handles are 31". Not sure why I thought they were 28", I thought one of the other competitors said this. Oh well. You're right that it is best to go with what feels comfortable, and square_peg is correct about the balance issue. I find the 4 pound on a 31 doesn't feel quite as balanced as the 3.5 on a 30. A 3 on a 28 would probably make a really great size, especially if you're shorter.

I'd like to try one, but I really shouldn't buy any more axes.

 

[halfaxe]

I used to find 3 1/2 lb. axes on 19" handles quite often. They were used in fitting timbers in the underground mines here. So whatever fits your needs and comfort.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Man--the perspective on this shot really makes it look like that axe is as big as you are!

 

[Curt Hal]

I finally got the time to take this out of the BLO and take some pictures. I haven't worked on the haft yet, and won't until I decide if I am going to keep the 27 inch handle on it or not. The total weight, with haft, is 4 lb. 12 oz. If I pare down the handles, it may take a little off of that. It's the first time I have used the round wedges. I don't really care for them, but given that the eye a bit wider than the haft and the generous bit of wedge, I decided to be cautious. It is very tight and has expanded a bit after a few days in BLO.

 

[Bridger]

"I think those are usually 32""

A post on arboristsite by Arden Cogar Jr. says the Tuatahi handles are 31". Not sure why I thought they were 28", I thought one of the other competitors said this. Oh well. You're right that it is best to go with what feels comfortable, and square_peg is correct about the balance issue. I find the 4 pound on a 31 doesn't feel quite as balanced as the 3.5 on a 30. A 3 on a 28 would probably make a really great size, especially if you're shorter.

I'd like to try one, but I really shouldn't buy any more axes.

I measured the handles on my university timbersports team axes and they were all between 28"-31". These are 5+ pound heads and they are anything but clunky

I've been having way too much fun since I joined the team!

 

[Square_peg]

Did you ever use one of those 5 pound axes to limb a tree that was fallen in heavy brush? Have you ever fallen a real tree with one?

But it's cool that you're on the timbersports team. I bet that is a blast. Post some pics for us if you get the chance.