.30-.30 v. .308

S

Shann

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Sep 2, 2004
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I was reading Guns&Ammo or Shooting Times, can't remember which, and they had a bunch of calibers stated in their "metric" numbers. I think that the .30-.30 and the .308 were exactly the same. (Sorry if I'm wrong, then this question becomes stupid).

Assuming they were in the same action, can the .30-.30 be (handloaded) the same as the .308, which I always thought was a "superior" at least at long range, round?

I recall probably 20 years ago seeing a little bolt action .30-.30, so I do know that they were made. I should have bought it, but it was literally so light I thought it had to be a toy. To this day I haven't picked up a lighter centerfire rifle.
 
The .30-30 and the .308 win both shoot the same caliber bullet, a bullet of .308" diameter, or 7.62 mm. But other than that, they are different. The .308 win has a larger case capacity and can be loaded "hotter" than the .30-30. Because the majority of .30-30s are tube fed, the bullets must be round nose to minimize the chance of a chain fire. The .30-30, .308, .30-06, 300 win mag, 300 weatherby mag, 300 remington short action ultra mag, 300 remington ultra mag, and 300 lapua mag are all .308 caliber, but differ in case length, shoulder angle, case diameter, total case volume, and chamber pressure.
 
hlee said:
The .30-30 and the .308 win both shoot the same caliber bullet, a bullet of .308" diameter, or 7.62 mm. But other than that, they are different. The .308 win has a larger case capacity and can be loaded "hotter" than the .30-30. Because the majority of .30-30s are tube fed, the bullets must be round nose to minimize the chance of a chain fire. The .30-30, .308, .30-06, 300 win mag, 300 weatherby mag, 300 remington short action ultra mag, 300 remington ultra mag, and 300 lapua mag are all .308 caliber, but differ in case length, shoulder angle, case diameter, total case volume, and chamber pressure.
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That was what got me wondering, because they listed the case lengths as the same, as well. I didn't think of the case diameter, etc.

Thanks.
 
Both are excellent cartridges for their specific purposes. Despite being ancient, the .30-.30 still sells very well at the ammunition counter as does the .308. You realize, of course, the .308 is the old 7.62 NATO round developed to replace the .30-06 of WWI, WWII and hunting fame. By reducing the length of the case as the .308, it was possible to use a shorter length action thus reducing the size of the weapon. If you read gun articles, they are always referring to short or long action rifles . . . well, the .30-06 is the long action and the .308 is the short one!

Whoa, too much detail . . .
 
A brand new style thirty-thirty cartridge was just released that has a polymer spitzer shaped bullet nose than can be used in tubular feed rifles like the model 94 Winchester. It is many steps above the older style round nose cartridge in downrange velocity and accuracy. The majority of rifles using the .30-.30 cartridge are lever action models whose designs date back to the 1800's.

The .308 is a shortened version of the older .30-06 cartridge. Originally designed for NATO forces after WWII it's smaller size made it easier for a soldier to carry more ammo with the same ballistic characteristics as the .30-06. The .308 cartridge is very accurate and often seen at high power rifle target shooting competitions. The .223 has surpassed it in popularity for competition over the last 30 years or so.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/leverevolution.htm

Both are proven whitetail hunting cartridges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester

You can easily buy either cartridge at any hardware store or sporting goods store. All stores that sell ammo carry them.

I prefer the .308 just because I find most lever actions on the small side and prefer a bolt action with a longer stock.

If you are looking for a first time rifle I'd suggest giving serious consideration to the .243 Winchester. Very accurate and easy to shoot well. Recoil is nominal. The .243 ammo is easy to find. With good ammo, the .243 has plenty of power for hunting all N. American game except for maybe Elk and big bears.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.243_Winchester

Here is a good list of info about various rifle cartridges. Some are great but hard to find at the store.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rifle_cartridges
 
That the .30-30 comes in common lever rifles and lever action carbine sized long guns and the .308 only comes in oddball lever rifles, bolts or mil-pattern semi-autos ends the cartridge debate for me. Leverguns are a joy to carry for any length of time compared to most semi-auto or bolt guns chambered around the .308.

It isn't the performance of the .30-30 that has kept it around forever, it's the platform that fires it which is responsible for its continued popularity.
 
Well said, Boats! My sentiments exactly. I, too, prefer a slim, trim, and light levergun. That's why I've picked up a couple of "spare" Winchester 94 rifles in .30-30 caliber in the 15 months or so since they closed their plant (!!!) that made them and their famous model 70 bolt actions. If anybody reading this has ever wanted a Winchester 94 (.30-30, .357 Magnum, or .44 Magnum) you'd better get one while the getting is good. Summer is the best time to find bargain prices on rifles and shotguns, and if you can find a good Winchester 94 for $200 or less you'd better grab it. The extra special ones are the really short Trapper models with a 16 inch barrel, but the standard 20 inch models are fine, too. :thumbup:
 
Boats said:
It isn't the performance of the .30-30 that has kept it around forever, it's the platform that fires it which is responsible for its continued popularity.
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No argument there. Lever actions are light, easy pointing and, with the new polymer-tipped cartridges, effective to greater and greater ranges.

I've got a Marlin .45/70 Guide Gun that shoots minute of angle at 100 yards.
 
The Hornady LeverEvolution ammunition is worth checking out if you shoot a 30/30 in a traditional style leveraction. For the old bolt action 30/30's you could always handload spitzer type bullets. I have not done it myself but if you ackley improve a 30/30 you will get ballistics similiar to a 300 savage.

It might be interesting to see how the new 308 Marlin works out over time.

I have a 30/30 and 308 lever action neither is for sale
 
The 30/30 is a great light weight gun. It is a nice gun to bring into thick woods. It has probably put more venison in the freezer than any other gun. If you are inside of 100 yards it is super. I love the lever action too.
 
For most of the hunting I do, in fairly dense woods, the .30-30 is all the gun I need. Still, I occasionally hunt with a .308 or .30-06 if I think I might be shooting over a cutover or a field.
 
I went through this a few years back; I really like both the .308, and lever guns...so, I bought a very nice, lightweight, Japanese made Browing BLR in .308 - the best of both worlds, or so I thought until I tried to shoot the darn thing and it wouldn't reliably feed the second round...

After trying about 20 types of ammo, everything from Mil-Spec to premium hunting in various weights and bullet lengths, I sent it back to Browning - they suggested that I try some different ammo types or a new magazine...

So, I tried about 10 more ammo types (just about everything on the market at the time) and a new magazine - with the same results. So, I sent it back to Browning, again. "Nope, nothing wrong with it" they said when they sent it back...so, I asked for a refund at the gun store and got one.

A few months later, back at the store, was the same (my former) rifle for sale as 'lightly used'...so, I asked the salesman what they'd done to fix it? "Nuthin', Browning says it's fine..." (someone was about to get screwed)

Has anyone else here had similar or better results with their Browning .308 BLR? It sure looked and felt good, but for a single shot I'd prolly go for a Ruger, in a different caliber...;)
 
A while ago, I had a Winchester model 88 (similar in ways to the blr) in .308, and it wasn't as bad as you described, but it could be rough cycling and hang up. For me the action had to be clean, no gummed up lube or powder residue and I had to snap it open and closed pretty quick. I looked at that thing a few times and I think (oh oh) that rotating bolt didn't cam into lock up as efficiently as a bolt action. That shouldn't matter for the pick up and feed, but it never struck me as real smooth. I'm not a big lever gun fan, but I can remember passing up a real clean M-94 Trapper in .32 Special that wouldn't get away now for many times the price.
 
due to it being chambered mostly in lever guns i think it would be very difficult to load a 30-30 to .308 specs,

IIRC the .308 was actually derived from the 300 savage, not the '06.

if ya want a lever gun in .308 get a savage 99 in 300 savage, its about 200 fps slower than a .308 but it works great on deer sized stuff.

sucks about your BLR melvin but i have one and a bud also has one (1 in .308 1 in .243) and we've never had probs with ours, i think ya just got a bad one.

a winchester 88 thats working right is one of the smoothest lever actions around, again, something was wrong with it if it was rough. i had one when i was a kid that got stole, i still miss that gun, they arent cheap nowadays either.
 
No, SIFU1A, you remember slightly wrong. From a case perspective .308 is a slightly higher pressure version (only about 25% higher if I remember my SAAMI specs right, not a big jump or anything) of the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge, which is in turn a shortened .30-06. The Savage is from the '20s, it wasn't as omphy as the .30-06 which was their goal. Savage claims the Army wanted something with similar performance to the Savage, a little hotter, while being able to use the cartridge case machinery used for the .30-06, but there is no evidence to back it up that I've ever seen.

Shann, there is an option, but it is an oddy. .307 Winchester is .308 with a rim, it was designed back in the mid-late 70s for people looking for a lever action that is was omphier than the .30-30. Real odd duck, but you sometimes find rifles chambered for it on the used market- they will feed and fire .308 (no hard spitzers!), but they won't extract very well. Every so often someone runs a lot of the stuff, and if you are reloading you just use the .308 tables.

The other option is 7.62x39mm, it's very similiar in performance to the .30-30.

I guess it comes down to what you want it for. .30-30 vs .308 is like 4 cylinder engines vs 6 cylinder ones. Nothing wrong with any of it, so long as you use them within their limits.
 
Actully the 7.62 nato round was based on the 300 savage. It like the savage before it was ibuilt to give 30/06 performance in a short action.

As for the win model 88, I grew up hunting with my dad's, it was an excellent rifle. I now have one, my nephew has my dad's and one brother has 4 or 5 of them including a carbine. He also has one in 284 win which shoots just fine. I have never owned a blr but I hunted with a guy that used one for years on everything up to and including moose and he never had a problem with it
 
i am sure i have read that everyone who thinks the .308 came from the '06 is wrong it was derived from the 300 savage, i remember because i have a 300 savage, i'll have to look in my mags and find the article i suppose, but i am pretty sure about it. i always thought it came from the '06 myself.

the 300 savage and .308 are very similar ballistically and in specs also, the 300 shoots a 150gr about 150fps slower than the .308 FWIW, not bad for a cartridge from the '20s.
 
ironraven said:
Shann, there is an option, but it is an oddy. .307 Winchester is .308 with a rim, it was designed back in the mid-late 70s for people looking for a lever action that is was omphier than the .30-30. Real odd duck, but you sometimes find rifles chambered for it on the used market- they will feed and fire .308 (no hard spitzers!), but they won't extract very well. Every so often someone runs a lot of the stuff, and if you are reloading you just use the .308 tables.
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Ironraven,

That is a very poor recommendation and dangerous.

I would not recommend firing a .308 in a rifle chambered for the .307 Win.
The .307 rifle (model 94 Big Bore) is not designed to handle the pressures the 308 generates.
The other issue is headspace. The 308 headspaces on the shoulder and the .307 designed to headspace on the rim.

Just my .02 cents worth.
dave
 
The 300 Savage came out in 1920. All the info I have says the 308 Win [7.62 Nato ] comes from shortening the 30-06 because the shorter case feeds better in automatic weapons.Our introduction to small bore smokeless cartridges was the 30-40 Krag of 1892. .30 Cal is still the most common caliber.
 
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