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30 Days Short of 3 Years.. The Long Wait

Discussion in 'FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly!' started by Hubmonkey, Apr 3, 2018.

  1. Hubmonkey

    Hubmonkey

    19
    Aug 23, 2015
    So for me the journey to buy a Survive knife has ended.. pretty much forever.

    I placed my order on 4/27/15 for a 4.1 knife that I would have never believed would have taken me 3 years to receive. I bought into the Starter program because every time there was a buy going on for the 4.1 knife I could never get it the exact way I wanted it due to the handle material I wanted was not available or the fastener finish I wanted was not available, etc. The Starter Program gave me the chance to get it just the way I wanted it and I figured by the wording of the Starter Program I could get it for Christmas in 2015 or maybe after the first of the year, because come on 7+ months to build a bunch of knives is plenty of time, right? It's not like they are forging the steel, rolling it out, cutting the blanks by hand, grinding them and then assembling them and finishing them out. I know there were no dates mentioned but they did change the wording of the Starter Program after I paid and a bunch of people complained. Had I even considered that it would have taken 3 years they would have never gotten a dime of my money. I know a bunch of people have opted for refunds and do not blame them one bit. I really should have asked for that way early in the process, but my single knife purchase really does not affect them either way at all.

    All my communications with Survive over the years have always been polite even though there have been several times that I wanted to fire off a not so nice email but I have always kept it short and polite. The Staff at Survive has always returned my inquires. It may have taken a few days but they have ALWAYS gotten back to me. The timelines have not been close to what they have communicated to me and this is frustrating to say the least. Sent them an email every few months and every few months I get the bounce back email followed but a couple days later with an semi-form email telling me things are in the works and projected timelines.


    So onto the knife itself….

    I received my knife yesterday and it is, well, nice but not perfect like most would lead you to believe you were getting. Is it a nice knife? Absolutely. Is it Perfect? No Sir. From the tool marks on the spine to the fasteners that are recessed a bit too deep creating sharp edges around the holes, but that is considered nit picking by some.

    Now that I have it in hand I should have opted to not get the Bow Drill Divot, but hey how I was to know it would fall right where my finger would when holding the knife? This is no fault of Survive as it is probably perfectly placed for some if not most individuals. Maybe I will chamfer the hole to take the sharp edge off or I will mix up some colored resin and just fill the hole.

    The finish is very nice, even though I prefer the Tumbled finish of the previous generation. The Laser etchings are very crisp and the Flag is a nice touch. We will see how it holds up like my 4.1 1st Gen.

    The Kydex Sheath is pretty amazing and the attention to detail on it is very professional. I have played with Kydex pressing over the years and I can tell you whoever is making these for Survive is a top notch operation. There is not a singe sharp edge ANYWHERE on this thing. All the Fasteners are pressed correctly and not a scratch on any of them. Kudos to them.

    I prefer a leather Sheath and will likely order a Sagewood Gear Sheath like the one for my 1st Gen 4.1.


    I know there are people on this forum that are going to call me a troll and look at posts that I have made in the Survive Forum and say that I am disgruntled because I used logic and defended peoples position on how ridiculous it is to take people’s money for 3 years before delivering a product to them. To be honest I could really care less on what those people have to say. They have always, and will continue to defend Survive for this because they get product for testing or whatever the circumstance may be that causes them to throw common sense out the window. I however will not.

    I wish Survive good luck in the future but this is the end for me as there are a large number of very talented custom knife makers out there that deliver their knives in way less than 3 years. Survive has lost my business as well as the business of everyone I know. Friends and family have told me over the years to ask for a refund and abandon Survive but I chose to stick it out and get what I was promised all those years ago. It was a matter of principal and I know that Survive really could care less because they got the money they needed and there are folks that would gladly buy the knife I paid for 3 years ago. It is unfortunate that people keep giving them money and keeping them afloat.

    Hub
     
    Hustra, bonky, stonesell and 7 others like this.
  2. Oyster

    Oyster Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 2, 2011
    ^ Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. There isn’t much to say except that I am glad that you finally got your knife.

    I am admittedly surprised by the “tool marks on the spine” given Guy’s reputation for fastidiousness. It’s not something that can be cleaned with a bit of Flitz?
    I will have to check when I get home, but I believe my 4.1 F2 that I purchased on the secondary market nearly a year ago does not exhibit any such flaws. Did something change in the process since then?
     
  3. Psybull

    Psybull

    620
    Dec 31, 2015
    Do you have any pictures of the machine marks on the spine and deep hardware pockets?
     
    ajvail18 and Oyster like this.
  4. ajvail18

    ajvail18 Gold Member Gold Member

    251
    Jan 12, 2017
    I would love to see pictures of these "tool marks". if you could find the time to post them that would be great.
     
    Oyster likes this.
  5. prestige

    prestige Gold Member Gold Member

    288
    Jan 14, 2008
    I placed my order two days after yours and I am still empty handed.

    I feel the same way.
     
  6. waveone

    waveone

    175
    Jan 12, 2014
    WOW!Is all I can say...., almost. Coming from someone who owns 4 Survive knives, that timeline is Ridiculous and there is no reasonable excuse which could be made for such a protracted timeline-Period. It's unconscionable to require someone wait that length of time without prior or even regular notice.

    Anyone that would call you a troll or have any problem with your comments including Survive is not in possession of a shred of objectivity, None. They're also bordering on sycophantic.
    My comments are made in complete sincerity.

    I believe Survive makes a fine product , it's obviously one of my favorites. However, given this report as well as the suspension of taking new orders in conjunction with the continued 2 plus years and counting of existing orders, it appears that the end of such protracted timelines is nowhere near the end.

    My question is how long can they continue on this trajectory ? The poor business practice along with an extreme production timeline has got to create considerable drag on cash flow and new business. True custom knives don't even take that long.....

    I've stated this before and will re iterate again , the protracted timeline in the extreme in conjunction with the influence this factor has on the extremely inflated secondary market leaves folks like myself a bit "exercised". It's a poor and negative impact all the way around.

    Hub, glad you got your knife , sorry you had to wait and that it is not up to tolerance.

    Survive will hopefully figure it out , or not .... Time will tell

    PS - Was there a note of gratitude or an apology for the timeline? Those things go a long way
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
    sharp thoughts likes this.
  7. Hubmonkey

    Hubmonkey

    19
    Aug 23, 2015
    Yes, the Survive Staff were always apologetic for the delays.

    I have pics but don't subscribe to any hosting services.

    Hub
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  8. XtianAus

    XtianAus Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 3, 2016
    You can use imgur for free.

    Simply save your photo to the desktop and then drag it into the centre of this website https://m.imgur.com
    Your photo will download onto the page.

    Then right click - open new tab.
    Once you have the new tab, copy the internet hyper link and paste that here onto the forums using the upload photo function.

    I'd like to see the photos too.

    Edit, you do not have to subscribe :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
    Oyster likes this.
  9. Fancier

    Fancier

    Jul 1, 2012
    Three years really is a long time.
     
  10. Citori

    Citori

    394
    Sep 28, 2002
    I also prefer the previous generation of blade finish, based on actual use. I wonder what testing led to the change and am open to the argument that it works better under certain conditions.

    That Survive! is incompetent with regard to delivery is well documented. No one paying attention needs any further confirmation, and it is alomost certain that they'll never dig themselves out from under this backlog unless they seek help from outside. I wonder if orders placed 2 days beyond those fulfilled will see same in linear fashion? I expect not and am sure the excuses are many.
     
    sharp thoughts likes this.
  11. mlmcasual

    mlmcasual

    375
    Jun 10, 2013
    Wow.. three years. I remember the good ol lottery days. Glad I got out when I did. And I do enjoy the older tumble finish as much as the peended.
    As far as name calling, don't sweat it ..those days are past. There is nothing left to be said that hasn't been said and and frankly three years and growing lead times does all the talking. It is now settled fact and formality. You Paid up front, you got in a line with no idea when it ends but you can always get a refund.
     
    Fancier likes this.
  12. Hubmonkey

    Hubmonkey

    19
    Aug 23, 2015
    Images Attached.. Kinda faint but more noticeable in person...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    EDIT: Okay that did not seem to work...

    Link to images... https://imgur.com/a/eH32H

    Hub
     
    Beak14 and Dadpool like this.
  13. Psybull

    Psybull

    620
    Dec 31, 2015
    Thanks for the pictures.
    I was checking mine out very closely as well after I saw those pics and most of my 2cd gens have the same recess for the torx screw issue on the rear screw in particular. The contouring is thinner on the bottom and gradually gets a bit thicker at the spine so the pocket does have a bit of a lip on the top side of the hole. The cut out mark are barely visible to but I did notice it on my latest 4.1 in the same spot and not on any of the other models. The wait is long but I still do not know of a currently made better blade/sheath/materials/quality for the same $ as the pre orders cost[imho].
    Lots of good makers out there and the higher end steels options are being produced by more and more people so you have choices.
    Good luck and thanks for sharing.
     
  14. Oyster

    Oyster Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 2, 2011
    I forgot to look at my knife, but I believe that mine has those same tool marks.
    To me, they look very even and a regular part of the manufacturing process of a product that has a distinct “industrial” look (which I personally find appealing) as opposed to indications of sloppy workmanship.
    I also believe that the screws on mine are similarly recessed (a function of flat screw heads vs the sculpted curvature of the scales) and haven’t felt them to cause any discomfort.

    I do understand your thoughts, however, I also feel that S!K might have a different approach than other makers you might be comparing them to. As already stated above, to me at least, S!K has a very industrial look and aims to be a precision “tool” rather than being “pretty”. I’d be surprised if the plunge lines, the grind, the edge, the materials (the steel and micarta used) etc were anything less than perfect and all at (again, to me) a very fair price point for the quality. There are other knives that may have a more “polished” look, fancier pins etc etc but then you are also looking at a higher price point to get all of that PLUS the same level of precision in the grind etc and materials as stated above.
    Just my thoughts. Maybe I will remember to take mine out to compare it to your pics tonight.

    ETA: Thanks for sharing the pics :thumbsup:
    And, obviously, the long wait will understandably have done its part in dampening any excitement/joy about the knife.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
    Psybull likes this.
  15. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    With those pics it is clear that guy only sending out perfect examples is not the issue with the back log. If they are sending out 2nds years before 1sts but the 1sts are on par with the 2nds what is the point. Getting money in the coffers when needed....
     
    bonky and Foghorn Leghorn Fan like this.
  16. Oyster

    Oyster Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 2, 2011
    Could be a fair point. Dunno.
    Quite a few have reported not being able to find anything wrong with their blades that would make them seconds. Although mine appears to be perfect in every other way, it DOES have a small ding in the side of the blade which might bother me if it wasn’t a second, but which I don’t believe affects the integrity of the blade otherwise.
     
  17. CataD

    CataD Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Oct 2, 2013
    I just received my 4.1 F2 and it has a lot more machine marks than yours. Mine has grinding marks on the flats and machine marks on the spine, all along the blade and handle.. I'll try to take some pictures later...
    @craytab out of curiosity, are you waiting for a/some knives from SK or you're here for moral support?

    Eta for the record, my 4.7 F1 in CPM 154 has the same mark on the spine as your 4.1 F1...
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
    jvan and Oyster like this.
  18. Oyster

    Oyster Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 2, 2011
    Yes, please share pics. Not sure if the pics will prove to be as bad as the description suggests, but that sounds more like what used to be an Ugly Betty (and even some of those have been described in the past as showing no/almost no visible marks).
    Hmmm...
    I’m waiting on a 4.1 F2 in 20CV. Curious how it will compare to my F2 of last year...
     
  19. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    I got my original 7/7 around the time you joined. This was when they were still in PA. Been watching the company ever since and hoping for them to get on track. The company has not changed in any positive way since, yet they keep telling us they are and/or will. So I guess you could say I'm here as moral support :thumbsup:
     
    L.H.S, Phixt, palonej and 1 other person like this.
  20. AndreLinoge

    AndreLinoge

    500
    Nov 20, 2014
    I'm not ever going to defend survive as a business. I will also never give them an interest free loan in the hopes of getting one of their (average quality, uninspiringly designed, overhyped) knives.

    But other than being dragged by your balls behind the survive bullshit wagon for nearly three years, what's the problem? Those arent tool marks, and 10 minutes of actual use will knock the edge off that screw hole right now. I mean, its not like a busse handle tube hole with a sharp 90° countersink at the top of it that will literally cut a circle out of a new glove.

    Those spine marks look like some sort of ghosting from whatever they laid on during blasting. If it was a 'tool mark' it would be all down the spine and probably on the belly side of the handle as well.

    Of course, only you can decide if you're happy with it in the end. I wouldn't have waited for it, nor would I buy it on the spot for what they ask for em, but I wouldn't call it a dud, either.
     

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