30 Days Short of 3 Years.. The Long Wait

[mlmcasual]

The loyalty of the S!K fanbase is always baffling to me.

Consistently, a few extreme fans do everything possible to derail threads that are negative about S!K. In the S!K forum, they seem to ignore the negative comments. Then, a few of the diehards bump a bunch of positive threads, apparently to hide the negative content.

FWIW, this behavior is not isolated to BladeForums. The Facebook page is highly moderated, and negative threads (even if they are polite and factual) are very often deleted.

Interesting you bring this up, you are certainly not the first..
Here is the thing.....
In the past few years, I noticed a different breed of "fan" emerging that went beyond cheerleading or fanboyism and set off red flags of outright Shilling. By shilling I mean third party people (some that were selling their own knife accessories products) attacking honest critics, trying to bury criticism, and litigating ad nausea against self evident blatant credibility problems at SK. Fans promote, shills have talking points. Fans excuse, Shills litigate. I saw a few "fans" in the SK "community" that that really stood apart. It was this apparent Shilling that left a bad taste in my mouth and was the final inspiration to call off my GSO preorders and get a refund. The odd level of apparent shilling spooked me and frankly, looking around at other posts, I don't think i am alone here. I have to emphasize "looked" because without direct evidence, it's just impressions... but I do know that in an already questionable environment, even the appearance of third party shilling didn't help in the confidence.

 

[mlmcasual]

Ok, Lets Talk about "Monthly Production Updates"

One of the things SK has done over the years is to include monthly "Production Updates" Contrary to the title, these are actually rhetorical superficial garbage that provide no actual progress or usefulness. SK has received a lot of undeserved credit for including those so called monthly updates. The ironic reality is those updates are NOT for the customer's benefit, they are for SK's benefit to string customers along indefinitely. For example, there will be meaningless superficial details on product X like,

• GSO-4.1 and GSO-7/7 blanks are being fine tuned on the surface grinder.
• Surface finishing GSO-4.1 blanks as they come off the surface grinder.

Really?? "fine tuned on a surface grinder"....... beyond cringe worthy.
But even SK eventually runs out of the superfluous BS steps to include and when they do they just start saying "We are shipping out X in regular batches" which is a statement of itself I have seen them stretch on for over a year.

I am bringing this subject up, because myself like many others used to give SK undeserved credit for the "updates" as keeping us informed. Nothing could be further from the truth. These so called "production updates" are just the opposite, designed not to inform but to deceive. I contend that had it NOT been(be) for those facade "updates", SK would have a much MUCH higher refund rate. A prepaid "customer" would not go three years with no product and zero communication whatsoever, they would have called in a refund way before that. And yet, substantively, the "production updates" are the same difference as zero communication. Thus SK found a way through the meaningless rhetorical facade of monthly "production updates" to fool people into thinking they were getting actual progress reports when in reality they were just being strung along.

 

[JJHollowman]

Here at Survive, side-fumbling has been effectively retorbulated.

 

[Hustra]

So for me the journey to buy a Survive knife has ended.. pretty much forever.

I placed my order on 4/27/15 for a 4.1 knife that I would have never believed would have taken me 3 years to receive. I bought into the Starter program because every time there was a buy going on for the 4.1 knife I could never get it the exact way I wanted it due to the handle material I wanted was not available or the fastener finish I wanted was not available, etc. The Starter Program gave me the chance to get it just the way I wanted it and I figured by the wording of the Starter Program I could get it for Christmas in 2015 or maybe after the first of the year, because come on 7+ months to build a bunch of knives is plenty of time, right? It's not like they are forging the steel, rolling it out, cutting the blanks by hand, grinding them and then assembling them and finishing them out. I know there were no dates mentioned but they did change the wording of the Starter Program after I paid and a bunch of people complained. Had I even considered that it would have taken 3 years they would have never gotten a dime of my money. I know a bunch of people have opted for refunds and do not blame them one bit. I really should have asked for that way early in the process, but my single knife purchase really does not affect them either way at all.

All my communications with Survive over the years have always been polite even though there have been several times that I wanted to fire off a not so nice email but I have always kept it short and polite. The Staff at Survive has always returned my inquires. It may have taken a few days but they have ALWAYS gotten back to me. The timelines have not been close to what they have communicated to me and this is frustrating to say the least. Sent them an email every few months and every few months I get the bounce back email followed but a couple days later with an semi-form email telling me things are in the works and projected timelines.


So onto the knife itself….

I received my knife yesterday and it is, well, nice but not perfect like most would lead you to believe you were getting. Is it a nice knife? Absolutely. Is it Perfect? No Sir. From the tool marks on the spine to the fasteners that are recessed a bit too deep creating sharp edges around the holes, but that is considered nit picking by some.

Now that I have it in hand I should have opted to not get the Bow Drill Divot, but hey how I was to know it would fall right where my finger would when holding the knife? This is no fault of Survive as it is probably perfectly placed for some if not most individuals. Maybe I will chamfer the hole to take the sharp edge off or I will mix up some colored resin and just fill the hole.

The finish is very nice, even though I prefer the Tumbled finish of the previous generation. The Laser etchings are very crisp and the Flag is a nice touch. We will see how it holds up like my 4.1 1st Gen.

The Kydex Sheath is pretty amazing and the attention to detail on it is very professional. I have played with Kydex pressing over the years and I can tell you whoever is making these for Survive is a top notch operation. There is not a singe sharp edge ANYWHERE on this thing. All the Fasteners are pressed correctly and not a scratch on any of them. Kudos to them.

I prefer a leather Sheath and will likely order a Sagewood Gear Sheath like the one for my 1st Gen 4.1.


I know there are people on this forum that are going to call me a troll and look at posts that I have made in the Survive Forum and say that I am disgruntled because I used logic and defended peoples position on how ridiculous it is to take people’s money for 3 years before delivering a product to them. To be honest I could really care less on what those people have to say. They have always, and will continue to defend Survive for this because they get product for testing or whatever the circumstance may be that causes them to throw common sense out the window. I however will not.

I wish Survive good luck in the future but this is the end for me as there are a large number of very talented custom knife makers out there that deliver their knives in way less than 3 years. Survive has lost my business as well as the business of everyone I know. Friends and family have told me over the years to ask for a refund and abandon Survive but I chose to stick it out and get what I was promised all those years ago. It was a matter of principal and I know that Survive really could care less because they got the money they needed and there are folks that would gladly buy the knife I paid for 3 years ago. It is unfortunate that people keep giving them money and keeping them afloat.

Hub

You're right on the money with your comments Hubmonkey apart from not wanting Survive knives to continue. I just received the exact same knife after three and a bit years of waiting. I definitely would not have placed the order if I'd known it was going to take this long. Like you I stuck it out, although at times I thought I'd been had by some scam or another due to the time its taken.
But now I have the knife, it is an absolute thing of beauty and I'm delighted with it! would I buy another Survive knife, absolutely NOT, I'd probably be dead and buried before it arrived.
Good luck.

 

[pwrdbycotn]

That is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. Apple has thousands of employees and outsources their labor to China. Which are manufactured with slave labor. Then sold back to you at a 10,000% mark up.

And Survive? outsourced their labor to Idaho. All they have to do is fit handles and sharpen, which seems to be a monumental task for them. It’s probably the helmet that keeps falling down in front of Guy’s eyes, making it hard for him to get anything done.

 

[Sagemode]

Your last paragraph is ridiculous and doesn't do what you think it does. Which is a shame because the rest of what you wrote is pretty spot on.

It was meant to be a joke in reference to the clauses Survive uses ordering their knives. The 90 day ship date is over 90 days because when you check the box it allows them to take over 90 days. The no deliver times clause is often stated by them but then they say once production starts they should be sent in 3-6 months. People don't focus on the word "Should". That is the game they play so I did the same. It also was meant for a few people who know who they are and draw information out. The GSO 5.1 has been in the start production soon phase for over 2 years going on 3 . Every single model they have on order are not any closer to being shipped out. One only has to go to the BBB to see their D rating to understand not to trust everything they say. The ATL Blade Show people let me know what to truly think of SK and I wouldn't order from them under any situation.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Your last paragraph is ridiculous and doesn't do what you think it does. Which is a shame because the rest of what you wrote is pretty spot on.

I think it is intended to be humorous commentary on weasel-worded disclaimers that so many, including Survive!, do so well.

 

[JohnWE]

It was meant to be a joke in reference to the clauses Survive uses ordering their knives. The 90 day ship date is over 90 days because when you check the box it allows them to take over 90 days. The no deliver times clause is often stated by them but then they say once production starts they should be sent in 3-6 months. People don't focus on the word "Should". That is the game they play so I did the same. It also was meant for a few people who know who they are and draw information out. The GSO 5.1 has been in the start production soon phase for over 2 years going on 3 . Every single model they have on order are not any closer to being shipped out. One only has to go to the BBB to see their D rating to understand not to trust everything they say. The ATL Blade Show people let me know what to truly think of SK and I wouldn't order from them under any situation.

Thanks for the clarification. I obviously missed the joke the first time!