3000/8000 grit waterstone trouble

T

thesteelguitar_man

Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Messages
8
Hello, so I am fairly new to knife sharpening but after years of practicing on old dishes out stones and not really understanding how it works, I finally buckled down and done some research and got a set of stones. Being my first time shopping the market I bought a 4 stone combination set. It is one of those sets on Amazon where a bunch of different company's put there name on them. Pebble sharp is on of the more common I've seen. After sharpening a few dozen knives and getting pretty good I started getting more picky. And here is where my problems starts

So the 400/1000 stone work great, no complaints. But the 3000/8000 is another story. To start out, let me explain each stone. The 3000 is a harder stone. Feels more abrasive to me compared to the 8000 Doesnt create a super slurry, but after a few passes a slight one comes up. After finishing it leaves a fairly reflective surface. Not mirrored but reflective. And that reflective is inconsistent. The 8000 stones is white and produces a grey slurry very fast. It has a smooth feel when sharpening. It is way softer than the 3000, and finish it like a solid grey haze. Not as reflective as the 3000 but much more uniform and consistent.. now for sharpness...
I alway felt that when I whet from 3000 to 8000 that I didnt sharpen it at all, or at worst it felt alittle duller(not as smooth) I blamed it on me getting tired and less consistent bit I'm starting to have doubts.

So what do you guys think? Do you think it could be these are just unusable stones. That the 3000 could give a better/ sharper finish than the 8000 but have larger particles here and there. I'm honestly not sure what I'm trying to ask but getting very frustrated with this stone and I'm not sure why its acting this way. Like the 8000 feels smoother, but leaves a more matte finishing and a duller edge( what I perceived atleast)

Anyone else have this same occurance? What would you recommend? Thank you
Jordan
 
Not sure but I would make sure the stones are equally flat. Some stones need soaking before. Not sure about your stones. Mark the stone with a cris cross grid and flatten it on a piece of glass with a piece of silicone carbide wet dry sandpaper.
 
Yes Bill. They are flattened(I flatten them and verify) and they are soaking stones. I soak them until the bubbles stop which is what is recommended.
 
thesteelguitar_man said:
I blamed it on me getting tired and less consistent bit I'm starting to have doubts.

So what do you guys think
Click to expand...
I think trying to do microscopic milling on a microscopic area of a long piece of steel, by hand, is asking for disapointment when there are much easier and easily obtainable options.

A mechanical guide to fix the relationship of the abrasive and the blade into a consistent and repeatable relationship.

Get an Edge Pro sharpening jig.
Alternatively you could stop at the 400/1000 saw edge and strop the bagesous out of it. Some enjoy that.
I do not.
A fixed edge geometry through out the four grits you listed with as few strokes as possible (forget the slurry keep it washed off) and you will have a superior edge for actually cutting stuff.

If your goal is fooling around scraping hair then strop away.
Cutting more challenging media ? . . . guide sharpening is head and shoulders better.
Unless you just want to acquire the skill of doing machine like precision by hand. It's possible.
The time it takes to learn could be better spent.
IMO
 
Finish on the 8k with some light trailing passes.

Stones that create some mud generally will make a better edge when finished with trailing passes, harder stones work better with a leading pass.
 
Wowbagger said:
I think trying to do microscopic milling on a microscopic area of a long piece of steel, by hand, is asking for disapointment when there are much easier and easily obtainable options
Click to expand...
I really enjoy sharpening be hand. And after doing a few dozen knifes I've gotten imo very consistent. I wound never get a work sharp. From what I read it gives a good edge, but nothing to cry home about. They are too limited from me. There was a big Gerber Bowie knife that I sharpened and no common system could even hold it because the spine is so thick. I like having that freedom

So I guess what I'm asking is if you think these stones are some mumble jumble of low grade materials. They are very frustrating. Does anyone have experience with these stones. They are rebrand by alot of company's. Mine happen to by Finew. Alot and more popular ones by pebble sharp.

I know this may seem like a what's the point, but I like perfect. I want to get the best I can get outta the system before having to lay down some more money if it's not necessary. If I want meadiocaur I would of bought an 8 dollar walmart knife sharpener
 
HeavyHanded said:
Finish on the 8k with some light trailing passes.

Stones that create some mud generally will make a better edge when finished with trailing passes, harder stones work better with a leading pass.
Click to expand...
I always finish with trailing passes. 5 on each side, then 3 then 3, then 2 then 2 then 1,1,1,1,1,1,11,1,1,1.
 
Try soaking the 8K for 12 to 15 minute's I noticed you said until the bubble's stop,I have Chosera stones for my TSProf guided system and unless they soak for 12 minute's they do not work as well if you try and use them splash and go or just with a quick 5 minute soak.

Also try increasing the amount of strokes your doing on the 8K trying doubling them and see what happens,but I would honestly try soaking the stone longer and see if that help,I have had sic stones that I just soak until the bubbles are gone witch is in 15 seconds or so.

Also I don't think you mentioned the brand of the stones your using.
 
wade7575 said:
Try soaking the 8K for 12 to 15 minute's I noticed you said until the bubble's stop,I have Chosera stones for my TSProf guided system and unless they soak for 12 minute's they do not work as well if you try and use them splash and go or just with a quick 5 minute soak.

Also try increasing the amount of strokes your doing on the 8K trying doubling them and see what happens,but I would honestly try soaking the stone longer and see if that help,I have had sic stones that I just soak until the bubbles are gone witch is in 15 seconds or so.

Also I don't think you mentioned the brand of the stones your using.
Click to expand...
Yes. I will try that tonight. They usually soak for about 10 mins. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I will make a point to leave it longer to see if it makes a difference. The stones I bought are these generic combo stones that a ton of companys put there name on. Pebble sharp is one of the more popular ones. I've tried uploadinding a photo but am having little luck.
A simple google search and then images will bring up the stones if you search pebble sharp
Thanks again JB
 
I know the kind of 3000/8000 combo stone you have, and the experienced reviewers say it is not actually a (JIS) 3000/8000 grade. A JIS 8000 stone should not leave a "solid grey haze" finish even when muddy.
 
Yes. I tried soaking it for over 20 minutes. Light pressure and lots if strokes. Nothing. Very consistent and solid edge, but just not very reflective. Atleast less than the 3000.
 
Chances are that firstly the stone isn't the grade it claims, but secondly it should be made clear that a slurry is undesirable in a stone used as a final stage. It's great for intermediary stones because it helps prevent a burr from forming, but that's because all of the free-floating abrasive is plowing into the apex and cutting off any burr before it forms. This means that finishing the edge to a crisp apex is also difficult with slurry present on the stone, and you may need to use edge-trailing strokes to produce it, or else finish the very apex on something like a sintered ceramic.

However, it's also worth noting that cosmetic bevel finish can go down with an increase in grit rating due to other factors in the stone's variables. I had some prototypes made by a US manufacturer in FEPA F 600 and 1200 grits and the 600 produced a nice glossy mirror in use with a lot of slurry, while the 1200 would "frost" the bevel, had low slurry-forming, and did produce a noticeably more keen and smooth edge despite being less reflective. Not sure why that was exactly, but the grit used was accurate, and it was almost certainly due to the differences in the shape of the abrasive grains, their density of distribution, the grit-to-bond ratio, grit protrusion, bond strength, and so on.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
but secondly it should be made clear that a slurry is undesirable in a stone used as a final stage
Click to expand...
Well that would make sense. The 3000 produces very little slurry and has a slightly inconsistent but more reflective edge. It also feels like a more crisp and sharper edge. When the 8000( say its only 4000 grit really, or less) creates all this slurry and leaves the apex more inconsistent so not a sharp.

Seems like there may be alot of variables here that I've never experienced. But materials are aluminum oxide, (or is claimed so) so it must me something else. I out to just break the bank and get a more well known and dependable stone
 
T thesteelguitar_man To upload picture's use imgur upload your picture's to their website it's a hosting site like photobucket and it's free,then click on the picture in imgur,where it say's Direct Link there should be a copy button click the copy button.

When doing this come to the forum first and start a thread or make a post and leave that web page open then take the link you copied at imgur and next look for the button with a Mountain scene and it should say image if you hover it in top part where you write your post,next click the button with the mountain and copy your link from imgur and make sure to use the direct link and your done.

Also if you want to resize a picture use AVS Image Converter it's free and it works really well and fast and is very simple to use,look for a box with a drop down menu that say's Original Size and choose 9x13cm,you just drag and drop the picture's you want resized into the main big box in the program then you just choose where you want them to be saved and your done.

thesteelguitar_man said:
Yes. I will try that tonight. They usually soak for about 10 mins. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I will make a point to leave it longer to see if it makes a difference. The stones I bought are these generic combo stones that a ton of companys put there name on. Pebble sharp is one of the more popular ones. I've tried uploadinding a photo but am having little luck.
A simple google search and then images will bring up the stones if you search pebble sharp
Thanks again JB
Click to expand...
 
thesteelguitar_man said:
Seems like there may be alot of variables here that I've never experienced. But materials are aluminum oxide, (or is claimed so) so it must me something else. I out to just break the bank and get a more well known and dependable stone
Click to expand...

Aluminum oxide is the most commonly used abrasive in sharpening stones, but it comes in many different varieties that vary by grain shape and friability in addition to grain size. It's almost certainly aluminum oxide, it's just that there are a lot of other variables that are equally or more likely culprits, as well as just things like technique. :)
 
I'll add that I have yet to use a waterstone that didn't require a good bit of usage to figure out how to get the best. They all have a bit of personality and after a bunch of knives it just sort of clicks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top